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In The Matter Of: APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE 110 S.W. JEFFERSON AVE., SUITE 430 PEORIA, IL 61602 PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] [EMAIL REDACTED] Original File 10-21-14_HRG_ALISON.txt Min-U-Script® with Word Index ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 1 BEFORE THE McLEAN COUNTY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS --o0o IN RE: MINARD OIL RUN COMPANY, No. SU1405 BRADFORD, Applicant. TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS, taken in the above-entitled cause, before Alison L. Strubberg, an Illinois Certified Shorthand Reporter, CSR No. 084.004655, on Tuesday, October 21, 2014, at the time of 7:00 p.m., at the McLean County Government Center, 115 East Washington Street, Bloomington, Illinois. Page 2 1 PRESENT: 2 3 FOR THE APPLICANT MINARD RUN OIL COMPANY: 4 LIVINGSTON, BARGER, BRANDT & SCHROEDER BY: WILLIAM C. WETZEL 5 Attorney at Law Suite 400 6 115 West Jefferson Street Bloomington, Illinois 61701 7 (309) 828-5281 8 BOARD MEMBERS: 9 Sally Rudolph, Chair 10 Phil Dick, Director Julia Turner 11 James Finnigan Brian Bangert 12 Chris Carlton Michael Kuritz 13 Donald Knapp, Civil Assistant State's 14 Attorney Eric Schmitt, County Highway Engineer 15 Mike Behary, County Planner Dr. Robert Nelson, County Expert. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Page 3 1 BLOOMINGTON, ILLINOIS; TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2014 2 7:00 p.m. 3 --o0o-- 4 MS. RUDOLPH: The McLean County Zoning 5 Board of Appeals will please come to order. The 6 secretary will call the roll. 7 MR. DICK: Mark Judd? 8 (No response.) 9 MR. DICK: Michael Kuritz? 10 MR. KURITZ: Here. 11 MR. DICK: Sally Rudolph? 12 MS. RUDOLPH: Here. 13 MR. DICK: Julia Turner? 14 MS. TURNER: Here. 15 MR. DICK: Brian Bangert? 16 MR. BANGERT: Here. 17 MR. DICK: Chris Carlton? 18 MS. CARLTON: Here. 19 MR. DICK: Jim Finnigan? 20 MR. FINNIGAN: Here. 21 MS. RUDOLPH: Six members constitute a 22 quorum. We can conduct business. 23 I'm hoping everyone has picked up a copy Page 4 1 of our procedures. I'll just repeat that when you 2 come up to ask questions or testify, we ask you to 3 turn these mics on. 4 This is a continuation of Case SU1405. 5 And on the hearing process that you all have, I 6 hope, we are at the point of 2D, questions of 7 interested parties or objectors of each witness. 8 I've been informed that some members were 9 not clear that the practice of this Board has been 10 to allow an individual to ask questions of a 11 witness one time only. 12 And at our last meeting, we were not far 13 from our 10:00 p.m. closing time when questions 14 began. I am told that two of the questioners did 15 not finish their questions because they wanted to 16 give others present a chance to question. They 17 are Dr. Rau and Ms. Dannenbring. 18 Dr. Rau, you did say after the 19 questions that's just all I wanted to know. 20 But as a courtesy, I'm going to ask you now if you 21 do have any further questions? 22 DR. RAU: Yes, I do. 23 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 1 - 4 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 5 1 Is Ms. Dannenberg here Dannenbring 2 here? 3 Okay. We will I had heard that she 4 may be here later, at which time we will ask her 5 the same question. 6 Again, I'm going to emphasize that this 7 time is for questions only. This applies to 8 everyone here that might give questions later 9 have questions later. And before we begin with 10 this, I'm going to ask first Assistant State's 11 Attorney Knapp to elaborate a bit on what this all 12 means for the future. 13 MR. KNAPP: I just want it to be I 14 just want it to be clear that it is our practice 15 to allow somebody to come up and ask questions one 16 time, so we don't get in a situation where someone 17 comes up, asks five minutes of questions, sits 18 down, thinks of ten more minutes of questions, 19 comes back up. 20 And then since the circumstances of our 21 last hearing were a little unique, that we didn't 22 get to the question part until very late in the 23 evening, I think the chairperson is going to allow Page 6 1 Mr. Rau to come back up and ask additional 2 questions. 3 Bill, do you have any objection to that? 4 MR. WETZEL: None at all. 5 MR. KNAPP: Okay. But we're not going to 6 get in a situation tonight, or hopefully ever, 7 where people are coming up two, three, four times. 8 So I would just caution, anybody here is going to 9 get a chance to ask questions, but try and ask all 10 of your questions one time. Fair enough? 11 MS. RUDOLPH: Dr. Rau, would you come 12 forward, please. 13 State your name and address once again. 14 DR. RAU: Yes. It's William Rau, 15 313 Vista Drive in Bloomington. 16 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. You may make 17 your statement. 18 DR. RAU: Okay. So 19 MS. RUDOLPH: Excuse me. 20 No, that's fine. Go ahead. I'm sorry. 21 DR. RAU: The question I left off that I 22 wanted to continue on was the whole issue of sort 23 of estimates of what a typical well produces. And Page 7 1 is it not correct that in this area, we can assume 2 that wells typically run between 125 barrels of 3 oil per day? 4 MR. HERR: Who is it directed to? 5 DR. RAU: To you, sir. 6 MR. HERR: I don't I don't think you 7 can necessarily assume that, no, sir. 8 DR. RAU: So it can go higher? 9 MR. HERR: It can go lower, too. 10 DR. RAU: Yeah. But we're talking about 11 an average for making estimates. 12 MR. HERR: You can make whatever 13 estimates you wish. 14 DR. RAU: Okay. Isn't it true that in 15 the Sangamon Arch, wells were coming in at about 16 356 barrels of oil per day? 17 MR. HERR: I've never done a study in the 18 Sangamon Arch that I could opine on that. 19 DR. RAU: But you were exploring for oil 20 in the Sangamon Arch? 21 MR. HERR: I was not personally, no, 22 sir. 23 DR. RAU: But Minard Run was, weren't Page 8 1 they? 2 MR. HERR: Yes, they drilled four wells 3 in the Sangamon Arch. 4 DR. RAU: Okay. So is it not true that 5 Dr. Nelson's the report to the Zoning staff 6 said the T.P. Kiley number 1 well, which is near 7 Wapella, produced 154 barrels of oil per day and 8 24 barrels of brine per day. That's in 9 Dr. Nelson's report. 10 MR. HERR: You said the T.P. Kiley? 11 DR. RAU: The T.P. Kiley number 1 12 wildcat. It's in his staff report, in his report 13 that was submitted to the Zoning Board staff. 14 MR. HERR: Well, it may be the 15 information I have that was published by the State 16 Geological Survey said it had an initial 17 production of 154 barrels of oil. 18 DR. RAU: Yeah. 19 MR. HERR: It doesn't mention any salt 20 water. 21 DR. RAU: In Dr. Nelson's report, it 22 mentions 24 barrels of salt water per day 23 initially. So I'm working on the report that Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 5 - 8 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 9 1 staff received. 2 MR. HERR: You have to ask a question, 3 sir. 4 DR. RAU: Okay. Do you have any 5 objections to the use of 100 barrels of oil per 6 day for oil production as a conservative estimate 7 of commercially respectful production? 8 MR. HERR: Do I have any objections? You 9 can use whatever you wish. 10 DR. RAU: Okay. So rather than 12 truck 11 trips per year per well to transport oil, don't we 12 have something more like 120 to 200 trips per well 13 per year? 14 MR. HERR: I answered this question last 15 time. I acknowledged that there was a mistake 16 made in my calculations. 17 DR. RAU: Okay. Well, the issue here is 18 a simple one. Illinois crude is typically 19 white a light crude. It's quite flammable. 20 And since we're having thousands of tanker trips 21 from the downside, rather than, say, 150, can't we 22 conclude that there's more wear and tear on our 23 roads, along with increased risk of spills, Page 10 1 accidents, and possibly a fire or explosion? 2 MR. HERR: How did you come up with 3 thousands of trips? 4 DR. RAU: Well, if you have 13 producing 5 wells and you're running 180 to 200 trips per 6 well, you're going to have somewhere between 2300 7 and 26- trips. 8 MR. HERR: Okay. 9 DR. RAU: So doesn't that increase if 10 you're doing a risk assessment analysis, would you 11 not have to conclude that there would be a greater 12 risk of not only wear and tear on roads, but 13 increased risk of spills, accidents, and possibly 14 a fire or explosion? 15 MR. HERR: I would want to see the risk 16 analysis before I agreed with that supposition. 17 DR. RAU: So you could increase the 18 number of trips 10- to 15-fold, and there would be 19 no increase in risk? 20 MR. HERR: I would want to see the risk 21 analysis. Trucks become safer. Roads become 22 safer. A lot of things happen. We're a much 23 safer operation today than we were years ago. Page 11 1 DR. RAU: Okay. Next question: The 2 Minard Run application says the O'Rourke number 1 3 well will produce about 332 barrels of brine per 4 year. I really don't understand how you got that 5 number. I wonder, could you explain how you got 6 it? 7 MR. HERR: My recollection is that I 8 looked at the initial production data from 9 the that was published in the State Geological 10 Survey, and I think only one well reported any 11 water. So I averaged it between all the wells in 12 this list here. 13 DR. RAU: But in Dr. Nelson's report, it 14 states 24 barrels of brine per day, which is a 15 13.5 percent water cut, which seems sort of the 16 normal range for initial production, say, between 17 10 and 15 percent. Isn't that sort of normal in 18 the Illinois basin? 19 MR. HERR: Not that I'm aware of. I've 20 seen many wells have that initial production with 21 no water all the way to almost 100 percent 22 water. 23 DR. RAU: Yeah. So there is a great Page 12 1 range, we admit that? 2 MR. HERR: Yes. 3 DR. RAU: Okay. So for purposes of 4 planning and evaluation, since a lot of your 5 decisions are based on whether or not you're going 6 to have a lot of brine, isn't it reasonable to use 7 the Kiley well, and what often happens is sort of 8 a basis for evaluating the kind of brine you might 9 produce? 10 MR. HERR: I don't think so. You have a 11 nearby field that's had several wells in it. To 12 select one well, which you've obviously picked 13 because you've got some information that it made 14 salt water, why would you not have considered the 15 other dozen or so wells that were reported to have 16 had no salt water production? 17 DR. RAU: Okay. Let me just move on a 18 little bit here. 19 Isn't it true that water cut increases 20 with age of a well? 21 MR. HERR: No, it is not true. 22 DR. RAU: So you don't plan to do any 23 extended oil recovery on this oil operation? Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 9 - 12 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 13 1 MR. HERR: I don't think we've planned 2 that far ahead. 3 DR. RAU: But what happens if you do do 4 extended oil recovery? What is the standard 5 method in 6 MR. HERR: I think that's a moot question 7 until we actually decide we're going to do 8 enhanced oil recovery. 9 DR. RAU: It's not a moot question for 10 these ladies and gentlemen here because it affects 11 the amount of brine that's produced on-site, 12 whether or not you're going to have injection at 13 this particular site. 14 MR. HERR: The permit that the County 15 or that the Board is proposing strictly prohibits 16 injection. So extended discussions about 17 injection operations are a moot point. 18 DR. RAU: So, in a sense, the Board is 19 left in the dark as to whether or not you're going 20 to have injection wells on-site? 21 MR. HERR: No, sir, they have not. The 22 permit specifically states that injection will not 23 be allowed. I don't see how much clearer that can Page 14 1 be. 2 DR. RAU: The if I remember the 3 MS. RUDOLPH: Dr. Rau, okay. 4 DR. RAU: If I could ask just one 5 question to continue on that. 6 I think what you were ruling out is deep 7 well injection? 8 MR. HERR: I'm not ruling out anything. 9 I'm just quoting what's in the application 10 there. 11 DR. RAU: Well, yeah. In the staff 12 report, it says that injection deep brine 13 injection will be prohibited at this particular 14 site. I would just like if you could explain 15 what "deep injection" means. 16 MR. HERR: I didn't write that. The 17 staff wrote that. You would have to ask them. 18 DR. RAU: Okay. But in your report, you 19 state, "If large quantities of salt water are 20 produced, it may be necessary to develop IDNR 21 permitted disposal wells on-site." 22 That's a direct quote out of your 23 application. Page 15 1 MR. HERR: Okay. 2 DR. RAU: So you are possibly going to 3 develop injection wells on-site? 4 MR. HERR: Not unless the Board rescinds 5 their permit condition that injection is not 6 permitted. I mean, I don't see how much 7 plainer it states very clearly that injection 8 is not permitted. 9 DR. RAU: There was a rider clause on 10 that. You stated that deep injection would not be 11 permitted. That's why I'm asking you to define 12 what that term meant. 13 MR. HERR: Well, I didn't I didn't 14 write that term. I can't I can't answer that 15 question. You might ask Mr. Behary or Mr. Dick 16 what they meant by it. They wrote that phrase, 17 not me, sir. 18 DR. RAU: Madam Chairman, is it 19 Chairwoman, is it fair to ask that question to... 20 MS. RUDOLPH: I'm sorry. No. 21 DR. RAU: Okay. I just want to ask one 22 other question. It's a hypothetical, but a very 23 relevant one. Page 16 1 In your 40 years of working in Southern 2 Illinois, do you know of any instances where a 3 salt water disposal or class two injection well 4 led to contaminated nearby water wells of 5 residents? 6 MR. HERR: I do not. 7 DR. RAU: You do not. Not even one? 8 MR. HERR: No, sir, not even one. 9 DR. RAU: Thank you, sir. 10 MR. HERR: You're welcome. 11 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. As I said, I believe 12 Ms. Dannenbring is not in attendance. So are 13 there others that would like to question the 14 applicant at this time? 15 State your name and address, please. 16 MR. CARLSON: My name is Don Carlson, 17 510 East Washington Street in Bloomington, 61701. 18 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. You may 19 proceed. 20 MR. CARLSON: First, I want to just try 21 to clarify the record and the testimony of the 22 last hearing. And this is at 2 hours and 43 23 minutes into the testimony. I believe it was you, Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 13 - 16 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 17 1 sir, who stated this: 2 "Question: What else comes up from 3 the pipeline? What else comes up? 4 "Answer: Salt water. 5 "Question: Nothing else? 6 "Answer: Rock chips come up from the 7 drilling process. 8 "Question: Release of anything else? 9 Radon, is that ever involved in drilling? 10 "Answer: Not that I'm aware of." 11 Would you like to take the opportunity to 12 change that testimony, or do you still stand by 13 what you said? 14 MR. HERR: I have no reason to change it. 15 MS. RUDOLPH: I need you to turn your mic 16 on. 17 MR. HERR: Sorry. 18 I have no reason to change it. 19 MR. CARLSON: Are you familiar with the 20 term "T-norm"? 21 MR. HERR: No. 22 MR. CARLSON: Are you familiar with the 23 term "term," T-E-R-M? Page 18 1 MR. HERR: No. 2 MR. CARLSON: Well, T-norm is 3 technologically enhanced, normally occupying 4 radioactive material. 5 MS. RUDOLPH: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm 6 sorry. You're giving testimony. 7 MR. CARLSON: Will the company test for 8 radium? 9 MR. HERR: I don't think they plan to. 10 MR. CARLSON: And do you know if the 11 Illinois Department of Natural Resources or 12 Illinois EPA or McLean County Health Department 13 will be testing for Radium 226 or 228? 14 MR. HERR: I do not. 15 MR. CARLSON: You mentioned that the oil 16 field waste would be taken care of on-site, and I 17 believe you said that it would be spread on the 18 ground. Is that accurate? 19 MR. HERR: I was referring to the 20 drilling mud. 21 MR. CARLSON: Is that is that oil 22 field waste? 23 MR. HERR: I don't think that's Page 19 1 considered I guess I guess I don't consider 2 it a waste. I mean, it might be defined as a 3 waste, but, you know, I would think if it were 4 hazardous or considered a hazardous or toxic 5 waste, that they would not be allowed to land 6 spread it. 7 MR. CARLSON: By who? Because you said 8 nobody EPA, DNR, or the health department isn't 9 testing. Who would tell you not to do that? 10 MR. HERR: The Illinois Department of 11 Natural Resources would prohibit it if they 12 thought it was hazardous. 13 MR. CARLSON: Can you estimate how many 14 cubic yards you're going to be spreading? 15 MR. HERR: Not off the top of my head. I 16 could probably do some calculations and come up 17 with a number. 18 MR. CARLSON: But you're going to be 19 spreading that on farmland? 20 MR. HERR: Yes. 21 MR. CARLSON: And you don't do any 22 testing for radium, Radium 226 or 228? 23 MR. HERR: I just answered that no for Page 20 1 the second time. 2 MR. CARLSON: Okay. Those are my 3 questions. 4 MS. RUDOLPH: Do any others have 5 questions for the applicant? I see a hand there. 6 MR. SCHROEER: I'm Juergen Schroeer, 7 living at 60 8 MS. RUDOLPH: Would you turn your 9 excuse me. Turn your mic on. 10 MR. SCHROEER: Oh, I'm sorry. 11 I'm Juergen Schroeer, living at 12 605 Normal Avenue in Normal. 13 MS. RUDOLPH: Would you spell your 14 name. 15 MR. SCHROEER: Yes. J-U-E-R-G-E-N, 16 S-C-H-R-O-E-E-R. 17 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. You may 18 proceed. 19 MR. SCHROEER: Sure. Well, my question 20 is a little bit of a follow-up from the previous 21 questioner. Namely, it concerns radioactive 22 contamination of the wastewater. 23 The geologic formations underlying McLean Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 17 - 20 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 21 1 County contain radioactive materials. 2 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. I'm sorry, 3 Mr. Schroeer, I think you're giving testimony now. 4 MR. SCHROEER: No, it will lead to a 5 question. 6 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. I just want you to 7 get to the question. 8 MR. SCHROEER: Yes. Thank you. 9 The geologic formations underlying McLean 10 County contain radioactive materials, as evidenced 11 among others by the fact that many homes have 12 infiltration by radioactive radon gas, which is a 13 decaying product of uranium. 14 Therefore, it is likely that wastewater 15 will contain uranium. 16 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. What is your what 17 is your question? 18 MR. SCHROEER: It's right now. 19 My question is, are you going to test the 20 waste affluent [sic] for the specific radioactive 21 isotopes? Apparently, no. 22 If any are found, what are you going to 23 do with them? And perhaps they will be Page 22 1 temporarily in the holding ponds, but what about 2 permanently? 3 And related to that is a letter from the 4 EPA to Frederick Fesenmyer, president of Minard 5 Oil Company, dated September 28th, 2011, in which 6 Minard Oil is requested to monitor the affluent in 7 8 This request comes about because the 9 company was cited for a violation of rules due to 10 exceeding affluent limits. Some of the parameters 11 tested were 12 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. I'm sorry. I'm 13 going to have to I'm going to have to stop you. 14 The Board the Board can't really consider this, 15 even though you tell me you're leading up to a 16 question, because you're not under oath. 17 When witnesses come in and we swear you 18 in, and then you can then you're under oath. 19 So I just have to limit this to questions. You're 20 certainly free to testify to this later. 21 MR. SCHROEER: Okay. That's all right. 22 MS. RUDOLPH: But if you don't have any 23 questions or do you have any questions? Page 23 1 MR. SCHROEER: All right. So I guess my 2 question was already answered, that they're not 3 going to test it. 4 MS. RUDOLPH: Yes. But he well 5 MR. SCHROEER: So if I want to say that 6 they should, then that comes later? 7 MS. RUDOLPH: That's right. Thank you. 8 Okay. Others? The first hand I saw was 9 right there. 10 Name and address? 11 MS. KAMM: Jenny Kamm, 306 East Taylor 12 Avenue, Normal, Illinois. 13 MS. RUDOLPH: And spell your name, 14 please. 15 MS. KAMM: K-A-M-M, and Jenny is 16 J-E-N-N-Y. 17 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 18 MS. KAMM: All right. You're welcome. 19 Can you ensure the public that 20 100 percent that no damage will be done to the 21 soil, water, and air? 22 MR. HERR: Yes. 23 MS. KAMM: Would you be able to explain Page 24 1 your basis on that, how you would be able to 100 2 percent guarantee that no that there would be 3 no harm done to how the state is right now, how 4 our environmental state is right now? 5 MR. HERR: Well, I've been doing this for 6 45 years, and I haven't killed anyone or poisoned 7 any animals or anything like that. I mean, this 8 is an ongoing business that, you know, people are 9 engaged in all around the country, and, you know, 10 we believe that we have a good environmental 11 record, I mean both the industry as a whole and 12 Minard Run. 13 MS. KAMM: I guess, do you think that 14 other organizations or I guess, would agree 15 with that, that you would not kind of harm the 16 environment in any of those ways, our air or soil 17 or water, if you can answer that question? 18 MR. HERR: Well, I'm sure there's people 19 out there that don't agree with me. Sometimes my 20 wife doesn't even agree with me. 21 MS. KAMM: Okay. In case of a blowout or 22 in case of any kind of spill or harm done to the 23 environment, who would you contact, and do you Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 21 - 24 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 25 1 know how quickly they would respond? 2 MR. HERR: There are several companies 3 that specialize in the control of wild wells. 4 First off, I would like to say that in 5 40-some-odd years of working in Illinois, that I 6 have never known of or experienced an oil well 7 blowout. The pressures here are very low, and 8 they're quite easy to control. 9 With that being said, there's several 10 companies that specialize in wild well control. I 11 expect that they could respond within a short 12 period of time, but we have not contracted with a 13 company or investigated that situation. 14 MS. KAMM: Do you plan to in the near 15 future to set up a plan in case any of this does 16 happen? 17 MR. HERR: No. I believe we can maintain 18 control of the well without the need for that. 19 MS. KAMM: Okay. How well is the Mahomet 20 Aquifer actually mapped, and how sure are you 21 that that you would not be or that you would 22 not affect the Mahomet Aquifer in any way through 23 this drilling? Page 26 1 MR. HERR: I believe the Mahomet Aquifer 2 is quite well mapped. I also know that it has 3 been drilled through some 600 times. And I know 4 of no incidents of pollution from these 5 penetrations. So I'm quite certain that we can 6 operate without contaminating the Mahomet 7 Aquifer. 8 MS. KAMM: Just hypothetically, if 9 something were to affect the Mahomet Aquifer, 10 would you feel responsible in trying to correct 11 that mistake, and how would you respond to that in 12 the future so we know how we might expect it to be 13 resolved? 14 MR. HERR: I think if Minard Run Oil 15 Company did something that contaminated the 16 aquifer, they would do whatever was necessary to 17 correct the situation. 18 MS. KAMM: Okay. Thank you. 19 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 20 I'll look this way this time. I think I 21 saw you first. 22 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: I'm Ron Wojtanowski, 23 350 East Road, Danvers. Page 27 1 MS. RUDOLPH: Spell your name, please. 2 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: W-O-J-T-A-N-O-W-S-K-I. 3 In the last session, you referenced 4 chemicals that you might have to use in the 5 drilling process, and you said there was a list of 6 chemicals available if somebody wanted them. 7 Could you supply those that list to 8 the Board? 9 MR. HERR: If they requested. 10 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Okay. Could you tell 11 us what some of those chemicals are, give us an 12 example of what they might be? 13 MR. HERR: We use polymers, like are used 14 in food processing, to enhance the viscosity of 15 the drilling mud. We use soaps, like are used to 16 wash dishes and wash cars, to make the mud 17 slick. 18 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: So do you believe that 19 any of these chemicals are toxic or carcinogenic 20 or anything like that? 21 MR. HERR: Not in the form that we use 22 them. 23 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Okay. But they can be Page 28 1 in other forms? 2 MR. HERR: Yes, they could be if used 3 wrongfully. 4 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: So when you remove the 5 drilling fluid from the well, are these chemicals 6 mixed in with the with the mud? 7 MR. HERR: Yes, they're additives to the 8 mud. 9 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: They're additives to 10 the mud. So they would be when you bury the 11 drilling fluid on the property, it would contain 12 these chemicals? 13 MR. HERR: We don't bury the drilling 14 fluid. We mix it in with the soil. 15 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Oh, okay. 16 MR. HERR: And the chemicals would be 17 there, yes. 18 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: The chemicals. 19 And could you tell us anything else that 20 might be in the drilling fluid when it comes out 21 of the well? Are there metal shavings or rock 22 pieces or 23 MR. HERR: There would be the rock chips Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 25 - 28 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 29 1 that were generated in the drilling process. 2 There might possibly be some small amounts of wear 3 metals from the drill pipe and the bit. 4 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: And you're probably 5 getting tired of this question, but you don't feel 6 that there would be any radioactivity in these 7 rock pieces or metal shavings when you when you 8 remove the drilling fluid and mix it in with the 9 soil? 10 MR. HERR: I don't think there would be 11 in the metal shavings. But you need to understand 12 that all rocks contain some radioactivity. Not 13 just rocks in this county, but all rocks are, to 14 some extent, radioactive. 15 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Right. So so the 16 amount of radioactivity that would be in these 17 rocks, you stated you wouldn't be testing for it, 18 and you don't feel it's a problem? 19 MR. HERR: That's correct. 20 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: That's correct. 21 Okay. So you're going to bury this 22 drilling fluid into this soil. Do you feel that 23 the drilling fluid will degrade the quality of the Page 30 1 soil on the O'Rourke farm? 2 MR. HERR: No. I'm frequently told by 3 farmers that they believe that the drilling fluid 4 actually enhances fertility. It may be poor 5 soils, you know, but I've been told that 6 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Yes. I mean, the 7 O'Rourke farm is some of the most fertile soil on 8 earth. So I don't see how the drilling fluid 9 would enhance fertility in this case. 10 But so this would be on the surface of 11 the of the farm, of the soil? 12 MR. HERR: It would be mixed with the 13 soil. 14 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Yes. 15 MR. HERR: That's the third time I've 16 told you that. 17 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Right. 18 So when you remove the you said you 19 were going to remove the top soil from the drill 20 sites. 21 Can you tell us what you do with that 22 soil? Is that saved somewhere on the property? 23 MR. HERR: We would stockpile it right Page 31 1 next to the drill site. 2 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Right next to the drill 3 site. 4 Okay. Now, this is for Mr. MacFarlane. 5 He seems to be kind of lonely over there. 6 The Juergen was trying to get you to 7 comment about the case in at Lewis 8 Run Creek, where Minard Run was in violation of 9 discharging excessive radioactive material into 10 the Lewis Run Creek. Do you have any comment on 11 that? 12 MR. MacFARLANE: That's an incorrect 13 statement. 14 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Oh, it is? Then I have 15 a thing from the EPA here dated September 28th, 16 2011, that 17 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. You're giving 18 testimony now. 19 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Okay. Okay. I just 20 wondered if you had any comments on that. 21 And this is probably the reason why 22 everybody is asking you about radioactivity. Did 23 you have did you have an EPA violation? Page 32 1 MR. MacFARLANE: Not with radioactivity. 2 That was never the case. 3 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: That was never 4 established? 5 And then there was a previous question 6 about handling any problems, like blowouts or a 7 fire on-site or anything. And if if there was 8 that situation and you said you said that 9 you normally don't have that situation, but if 10 there was that situation, where would the help 11 come from, and how long would it take before the 12 situation was remedied? 13 Because you said the local local fire 14 departments and stuff are not equipped to handle 15 that situation. So where would where would the 16 calvary come from to put out the fire? 17 MR. MacFARLANE: That was already 18 answered in our last meeting. 19 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: I guess I didn't I 20 didn't hear a specific answer. 21 Are they coming from far away? Is it 22 going to take a week, two weeks, for someone to 23 get there and remedy any problem? Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 29 - 32 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 33 1 MR. HERR: I believe that they would 2 respond within 24 hours. These companies are used 3 to they understand that oil well blowouts are a 4 bad situation, and they're typically geared for a 5 rapid response. 6 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Okay. Thank you. 7 MS. TURNER: The back row. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: The back row, your side? 9 MS. TURNER: Yes, this side. 10 She can't see you. You're behind the 11 pole. 12 MS. RUDOLPH: Yes, please. This isn't 13 the best designed room. 14 MR. WEST: Hi. 15 MS. RUDOLPH: Name and address, please. 16 MR. WEST: David West, 2200 6116 North 17 2200 East Road. I'm actually one of the residents 18 attached to the oil field. 19 I have several questions, mainly 20 pertaining to my safety and my family's safety. 21 You said you guarantee that there's going 22 to be no pollution of the well water. How are you 23 guaranteeing that? Page 34 1 MR. HERR: That question was asked and 2 answered several times at the last meeting. 3 We're required by the State of Illinois 4 to set a string of what's called surface casing. 5 They dictate to us how many feet we have to set. 6 That's put in the well and then submitted back to 7 surface. 8 And then if if a producing well is 9 obtained, we install another string of casing and 10 cement it back to surface. That is not required. 11 We do that as an additional safety feature. 12 If the well would be a dry hole, then we 13 would plug it with cement across the water 14 zones. 15 MR. WEST: This is not a it's a rural 16 area, but there's still several families that live 17 adjacent to or even within this potential oil 18 field site. 19 Are you going to be doing any surveys of 20 the drinking water or the well water at any of 21 these residences that are adjacent to this oil 22 field? 23 MR. HERR: We could, yes. Page 35 1 MR. WEST: But you have no plans to do 2 that at this point? 3 MR. HERR: No. 4 MR. WEST: If my well becomes polluted, 5 what are the remedies from this corporation? 6 MR. HERR: They would have to either fix 7 the situation in the well or make some provision 8 to provide you with water. 9 MR. WEST: Is that something that's going 10 to be contractually set with all residents within 11 that area before the drilling begins? 12 MR. HERR: I would think it would be 13 dealt with on an individual basis as it occurs. 14 MR. WEST: Will that be done prior to any 15 potential pollution of the wells, or is that 16 remedied after the fact? 17 MR. MacFARLANE: State that state that 18 again. 19 MR. WEST: Are you going to contractually 20 obligate yourself to all the residents of that 21 area to have some plan in place if the well 22 becomes polluted? 23 MR. MacFARLANE: We're not required to. Page 36 1 MR. WEST: Why are you not required to? 2 MR. MacFARLANE: I believe it's not state 3 requirements to do that, to have a contractual 4 agreement. 5 MR. WEST: Right. But as a company with 6 good faith, what is your policy in making 7 something that would potentially be your fault, 8 making that right to the residents of that area? 9 MR. MacFARLANE: That could be 10 potentially our fault. But you brought up the 11 issue of testing water. How far away is your 12 well your water well from this particular... 13 MR. WEST: Probably 500 feet. 14 MR. MacFARLANE: We would probably test 15 your water prior to drilling. 16 MR. WEST: And how often after that? 17 MR. MacFARLANE: We would not have to 18 test it after that because we would know if you 19 have your quality water. You would have to show 20 that it was less of a quality and it was connected 21 to what our actions were. 22 MR. WEST: Will there be any ongoing 23 surveillance then? Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 33 - 36 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 37 1 MR. MacFARLANE: You would be the one 2 surveilling your water. 3 MR. WEST: One of the other 4 MR. MacFARLANE: You would have a 5 background test on what it was prior to 6 drilling. 7 MR. WEST: But as a corporate policy, you 8 have nothing in place to remedy if a local 9 citizen's well water is polluted by your 10 operation? 11 MR. MacFARLANE: If the case was where we 12 polluted a water well and it was proven that we 13 contaminated that water well, we would take care 14 of it. 15 MR. WEST: What I'm asking, though, is, 16 do you have a plan or policy in place currently 17 that remedies these type of situations? 18 MR. MacFARLANE: Again, we don't 19 have we would test your water we should say 20 so, go ahead. We would test your water. That 21 would be the background of what your water quality 22 was prior to drilling. And if we you had a 23 case where your well changed, then you would come Page 38 1 to us, and then we would 2 MR. WEST: That's not what I'm asking. 3 I'm asking, do you have do you have a corporate 4 policy or plan? 5 MR. MacFARLANE: No, sir. No, sir. 6 MR. WEST: Okay. That was the question. 7 The other stipulation was from the 8 Board was that property values have to remain the 9 same during this operation. 10 Do you have a policy or plan a 11 corporate policy to remedy residents whose 12 property value declines? 13 MR. MacFARLANE: No. 14 MR. WEST: What if a resident's property 15 value declines, which then does not meet the 16 stipulations of the that this Board has set 17 forth, how do you remedy that? 18 MR. MacFARLANE: I do not know of 19 any it may it may increase the value. 20 MR. WEST: Well, I in my opinion, I 21 doubt that having an oil drilling operation in my 22 backyard would increase my property value. 23 MS. RUDOLPH: We don't we don't argue Page 39 1 here. So just proceed with your questions. 2 MR. WEST: No further questions. Thank 3 you. 4 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 5 Okay. I think the back row. 6 Just as a matter of course, I'm going to 7 have everybody spell their names for the court 8 reporter, even common names. 9 State your name and address. 10 MR. BROWN: My name is Gregg Brown, 11 G-R-E-G-G, and Brown, B-R-O-W-N. And I live at 12 303 East Locust, Number 2, in Bloomington. 13 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 14 MR. BROWN: Just one question. Minard 15 Run, in the states where they have been drilling, 16 have they been fined by state environmental 17 agencies in the past? 18 MR. MacFARLANE: We have had minor 19 fines. 20 MR. BROWN: Minor? 21 MR. MacFARLANE: Yes. And that's just 22 part of the business, but they were minor. They 23 were never anything of major consequences or Page 40 1 anything like that. 2 MR. BROWN: Minor fines for minor 3 contamination. 4 MR. MacFARLANE: I did not say which 5 contamination. That's not the case. 6 MR. BROWN: Thank you much. 7 MS. HEISER: My name is Susan Heiser, 8 H-E-I-S-E-R, 810 West Jefferson in Bloomington. 9 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 10 MS. HEISER: I think I understand that 11 there are 13 oil wells planned, and that each oil 12 well would have two storage tanks; is that 13 correct? 14 MR. MacFARLANE: That's incorrect. 15 MS. HEISER: Can you tell me the number 16 of oil storage tanks per well then? 17 MR. MacFARLANE: It would depend on the 18 volume, and they would go to a common tank 19 battery. 20 MS. HEISER: Okay. Could you 21 estimate I'm still basing this on two, but even 22 on one, could you estimate the number, in tons, of 23 air pollution volatile organic compounds and other Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (10) Pages 37 - 40 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 41 1 hazardous air pollutants that would be released 2 from each tank during the year? 3 MR. MacFARLANE: No. That's not 4 required. 5 MS. HEISER: It's not required as part of 6 your agreement with the County Board or with 7 anybody? 8 MR. MacFARLANE: No. 9 MS. HEISER: Okay. Do you have any 10 estimate of how much hazardous air pollutants are 11 released from storage tanks in your operation? 12 MR. MacFARLANE: I do not have an 13 estimate, no. 14 MS. HEISER: Okay. When you have your 15 oil in these storage tanks and you recover water 16 in these tanks, do you use any kind of recovery 17 unit to ensure that the whatever is released is 18 either recovered for your use or made safe for the 19 air around it? Do you use any kind of recovery 20 unit? 21 MR. MacFARLANE: For the air around it? 22 MS. HEISER: Yes, for whatever is 23 released into the air that we're breathing. Page 42 1 MR. MacFARLANE: You're going to have to 2 rephrase that. Are you saying the tanks or 3 MS. HEISER: Yeah. Do you use some sort 4 of recovery unit on your tanks, valves and knobs 5 and things, to keep everything safe under 6 pressure? 7 MR. MacFARLANE: Uh-huh. 8 MS. HEISER: Okay. When you the way I 9 understand it, most of the things that could be 10 released that are harmful air pollutants are 11 invisible to the naked eye. 12 Do you use infrared cameras? 13 MR. MacFARLANE: No. 14 MS. HEISER: What do you use to know 15 what's being released into the air? 16 MR. MacFARLANE: We're not required to 17 monitor anything being released into the air. 18 MS. HEISER: Then how can you assure 19 people living in the area that they're not 20 breathing dangerous air contaminants, like benzene 21 formaldehyde and... 22 MR. MacFARLANE: I believe if that was 23 the case, the State would have requirements to do Page 43 1 so. 2 MS. HEISER: But as long as the State 3 doesn't require that, then you don't see that as 4 part of your role? 5 MR. MacFARLANE: No, ma'am. 6 MS. HEISER: Okay. 7 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 8 MR. DORSEY: Pat Dorsey, D-O-R-S-E-Y, 9 19 Flora Way, Normal. 10 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 11 MR. DORSEY: How much fresh water will be 12 used for each well during the drilling process? 13 MR. HERR: Ma'am, could you have the 14 people tell them who they're addressing the 15 questions to? We can't tell who they're talking 16 to. 17 MS. RUDOLPH: That would be helpful. 18 MR. HERR: I haven't prepared an estimate 19 of how much water we would use. 20 MR. DORSEY: Okay. Do you know during 21 the oil recovery process? 22 MR. HERR: How much fresh water? 23 MR. DORSEY: Yes. Page 44 1 MR. HERR: Probably none. 2 MR. DORSEY: Okay. So you wouldn't 3 but you would use water during the drilling 4 process, fresh water? 5 MR. HERR: Yes. 6 MR. DORSEY: Where would that fresh water 7 come from? 8 MR. HERR: We typically purchase it 9 from if we find a landowner that has a pond 10 or we could buy it from them. If we can locate 11 flowing water, that's public property, so we can 12 get it there. Sometimes we purchase it from 13 cities, domestic water supplies. 14 MR. DORSEY: Okay. And since drainage 15 from the proposed wells is to the south, what 16 water features lie to the south of the drilling 17 sites? 18 MR. HERR: I don't know. 19 MR. DORSEY: So you don't know any 20 threats this drainage would cause to those water 21 features then? 22 MR. HERR: I don't think there would be 23 any threats. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (11) Pages 41 - 44 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 45 1 MR. DORSEY: Okay. That's all. Thanks. 2 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 3 MS. FUNK: Hi. My name is Debbie Funk, 4 F-U-N-K. My address is 7139 East 450 North Road, 5 McLean, Illinois. 6 My question is, has 7 MS. RUDOLPH: Excuse me. And you're 8 addressing Mr. Herr, right? 9 MS. FUNK: Yes. Thank you. 10 Has Minard Run conducted or paid for 11 seismic tests for oil in McLean County outside of 12 the Downs area? 13 MR. HERR: I'm going to refer that to 14 Mr. MacFarlane because I'm not an employee of 15 them, and I don't know exactly what they've done. 16 MR. MacFARLANE: The seismic that was run 17 was for this particular well was just in that 18 area. 19 MS. FUNK: Okay. Thank you. 20 Is Minard Run considering either 21 exploring for oil in other areas of the county or 22 does it have plans to drill for oil elsewhere in 23 the county? Page 46 1 MR. MacFARLANE: Not at this time. 2 MS. FUNK: Has Minard Run leased any 3 other land in McLean County, or will it consider 4 doing so in the future should it find oil south of 5 Downs? 6 MR. MacFARLANE: I do not believe we have 7 any additional leases as we speak at this moment. 8 MS. FUNK: Does Minard Run plan to 9 explore for oil below its first well, which will 10 be about 1,050 feet deep? 11 MR. MacFARLANE: Not at this time. 12 MS. FUNK: Will Minard Run now or 13 sometime in the future explore for oil or gas in 14 the Maquoketa Shale group, which is below the 15 O'Rourke number 1 well? 16 MR. MacFARLANE: We have no plans at this 17 time. 18 MS. FUNK: Those are all the questions I 19 have. Thank you. 20 MR. MacFARLANE: You're welcome. 21 MR. CONNOR: My name is Victor Connor. I 22 live at 302 Melody Lane in Normal. 23 I don't know if all three of you are Page 47 1 employees of Minard Run? 2 MR. HERR: I'm not an employee of the 3 company. I'm an independent consultant. 4 MR. WETZEL: I'm an attorney I'm an 5 attorney and have no employment relationship with 6 Minard Run. 7 MR. CONNOR: And you, sir? 8 MR. MacFARLANE: I am employed. 9 MR. CONNOR: Then I have a question for 10 you. 11 I went to your website, minardrunoil.com. 12 The first page, is that fairly accurate? Is all 13 the information on the first page... 14 MR. MacFARLANE: Can you clarify that? 15 MR. CONNOR: Well, I was looking at the 16 first page, and it said that in the past since 17 2000, you've drilled over 400 wells, and they 18 currently produce over 100,000 barrels of oil per 19 year. Is that correct? 20 MR. MacFARLANE: I could not give you the 21 specific answer because I know that website has 22 been under reconstruction and everything. 23 So, yes, we have several hundred wells. Page 48 1 That was brought up in our last meeting. And, 2 yes, we produce oil and gas. 3 MR. CONNOR: Okay. Well, using the 4 numbers that are on the website, 100,000 barrels 5 and 400 wells, annually, that's roughly 250 6 barrels per well per year. That's less than a 7 barrel per day. I mean, do you pump that small of 8 an amount? 9 MR. MacFARLANE: Some of these wells, as 10 they get older, they go down to a barrel a day, a 11 half a barrel a day. They have a what you call 12 a hyperbolic decline. They start out high and 13 they go down. 14 MR. CONNOR: Another fact that's listed 15 there is, in addition to oil, you get 340, comma, 16 zero, zero, million cubic feet of natural gas. 17 Should that be 34,000 million cubic feet, or is 18 that 340,000? 19 MR. MacFARLANE: That's 340,000. 20 MR. CONNOR: Okay. Well, there's a typo 21 there. You have to add a zero because that gets 22 you off a factor of 10. 23 MR. MacFARLANE: I when I'm looking at Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (12) Pages 45 - 48 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 49 1 that, I don't control that page. 2 MR. CONNOR: Okay. Me being a citizen, 3 I'm looking at your website trying to get 4 information. 5 One other question. In June of 1986, 6 there was an earthquake that was centered down in 7 Southern California Southern Illinois, and you 8 could feel it in Normal. I could feel it in 9 Normal when it happened. 10 Did that ever cause any this gentleman 11 said you've done a lot of wells in Southern 12 Illinois. Did that earthquake cause any problem 13 with any of your wells? 14 MR. MacFARLANE: Where? 15 MR. CONNOR: The earthquake was centered 16 down by St. Louis, but it was felt up here in 17 Normal. You could feel it anywhere in 18 Bloomington-Normal. 19 Did that cause any trouble with any of 20 your drilled wells? 21 MR. MacFARLANE: Our wells are in 22 and New York currently. 23 MR. CONNOR: This gentleman said they Page 50 1 drilled a bunch of wells in Illinois, and he's 2 been doing it for 40 3 MR. MacFARLANE: Who is "they," I guess? 4 Are you speaking of Minard Run or 5 MR. CONNOR: Well, I'm assuming he was 6 referring to Minard Run. I don't know. 7 MR. HERR: I was not referring to wells 8 operated by Minard Run. The earthquake that you 9 referred to, I believe, occurred in November of 10 1968 near the town of between Dale and 11 Broughton. 12 I worked in that area for quite a number 13 of years for one of the major oil companies, and 14 we never identified a well that we thought had 15 been adversely affected by the earthquake. We had 16 some damage to surface facilities from the 17 earthquake. 18 MR. CONNOR: Well, but I am referring to 19 the one that was I think it was June of '86, 20 because I moved here in '84. But anyway, there 21 was no damage from that? 22 MR. HERR: I don't think there was an 23 earthquake in June of '86. I did some research on Page 51 1 that because my recollection was that it was in 2 '69, but I think it was actually in '68. 3 MR. CONNOR: Well, maybe I was imagining 4 the earthquake. 5 Thank you. 6 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 7 Mr. Wetzel, could you turn your mic off, 8 please. Thank you. 9 MS. HEYL: My name is Barbara Heyl, 10 313 Vista Drive in Bloomington. 11 COURT REPORTER: Could you spell your 12 last name, please. 13 MS. HEYL: H-E-Y-L. 14 This is for Mr. Herr. 15 In the hearing on October 7, you stated, 16 while you were comparing the two types of 17 hydraulic fracturing, the high-volume horizontal 18 fracturing and the traditional hydraulic 19 fracturing, and it's the latter, the traditional 20 that you plan on doing, you were saying that that 21 kind of traditional hydraulic fracturing is not 22 regulated. 23 Can you please explain what you mean by Page 52 1 "not regulated"? 2 MR. HERR: First I want to correct 3 something. We do not have any plans to do 4 hydraulic fracturing on this well. That's a total 5 mischaracterization. 6 I'm sorry. What was your question now? 7 MS. HEYL: You said that the traditional, 8 I thought you said, hydraulic fracturing maybe 9 you just said vertical drilling is not 10 regulated. 11 MR. HERR: That's correct. 12 MS. HEYL: Can you explain what you mean 13 by "not regulated"? 14 MR. HERR: I mean that the State of 15 Illinois does not regulate that practice. We may 16 hydraulically fracture wells as we see fit. As 17 long as we meet a certain set of criteria that are 18 stated in a public law, then we're not required to 19 obtain permits or anything like that. 20 MS. HEYL: So those restrictions and I 21 believe you did mention some restrictions, and you 22 just mentioned they were in public law. Can you 23 help us know what statutes would provide some Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (13) Pages 49 - 52 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 53 1 restrictions and regulation for the drilling? 2 MR. HERR: I'll have to dig through my 3 papers to find the public law number. Bear with 4 me. 5 Public Act Number 098-0022. 6 MS. HEYL: And the name of that act, 7 please? 8 MR. HERR: You know, I don't know what 9 its formal name is on the bill that went through 10 the legislature. I can't answer that. 11 MS. HEYL: Public Act 0908, is that what 12 you said? I'm sorry. 13 MR. HERR: 098 14 MS. HEYL: 098. 15 MR. HERR: 0022. There's a dash after 16 98. 17 MS. HEYL: 0022? 18 MR. HERR: Yes. 19 MS. HEYL: That wouldn't be the old 20 Illinois Oil and Gas Act, would it? Does anybody 21 know that? 22 MR. HERR: I don't know. 23 MS. HEYL: Okay. Are you familiar with Page 54 1 what regulatory restrictions this law does 2 would put on your operation, what kind of 3 restrictions it would put on your operation? 4 MR. HERR: Well, if we fall within the 5 rules of the act, we're required to obtain a 6 permit from the State. 7 MS. HEYL: That's it? 8 MR. HERR: Yes. 9 MS. HEYL: Nothing on your actual 10 activities? 11 MR. HERR: Well, I think obtaining a 12 permit is a regulation of our activities. I mean, 13 there's certain certain information has to be 14 provided. Certain technical data and things like 15 that would be a part of the permit app, or 16 application. Sorry. 17 MS. HEYL: Would there be any state taxes 18 collected on any oil that you might produce? 19 MR. HERR: Yes, there would. We pay 20 what's called an ad valorem tax. It's actually a 21 property tax based on production, and it's paid to 22 the county in which the oil is produced from. I 23 might also add, the royalty on it, we pay a tax, Page 55 1 too. 2 MS. HEYL: The royalty to the landowners? 3 MR. HERR: Yes. Well, the royalty on 4 whoever owned the mineral rights, they would pay a 5 tax on their share of the oil, too. 6 MS. HEYL: I'm not going to go back over 7 the question of testing for radioactivity since 8 you've already been asked that so many times. But 9 I would like to know if you feel it's true that 10 there is uranium in the source rock that is the 11 source of your oil. 12 MR. HERR: I don't know if it's true or 13 not, ma'am. You asked me if I think it's true 14 that uranium is the source of the oil; is that 15 correct? 16 MS. HEYL: Is in the source rock that is 17 the source of your oil, yes. 18 MR. HERR: Oh, I think there's uranium in 19 everything. There's uranium in this carpet, even 20 in trace amounts. So I guess my answer is yes. 21 MS. HEYL: Do you use a gamma radiation 22 log as a diagnostic tool to find your oil? 23 MR. HERR: We do. Page 56 1 MS. HEYL: So that is another indication 2 that you're using the gamma radiation to tell you 3 where the oil is? 4 MR. HERR: The primary use for 5 gamma the gamma ray tool is the differentiation 6 of formations, not the identification of the 7 location of oil. 8 MS. HEYL: Okay. 9 MR. HERR: To further elaborate, certain 10 rock types are more radioactive than others. 11 Specifically, shales are radioactive. Limestones 12 and sandstones are relatively nonradioactive. So 13 we use the gamma ray primarily as a lithology 14 identification tool. 15 MS. HEYL: Okay. And do you know what 16 kind of rock the source rock is for the oil that 17 you feel will be down there? 18 MR. HERR: I don't know for this specific 19 field, no. 20 MS. HEYL: But you know the depth, and 21 the depth was determined by the gamma radiation 22 log? 23 MR. HERR: I know the depth that Minard Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (14) Pages 53 - 56 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 57 1 Run intends to drill to, and I know the depth that 2 they expect to encounter oil. 3 MS. HEYL: So then there is a correlation 4 between the kind of rock and the oil, and you're 5 saying there's a correlation between the kind of 6 rock and radioactivity. So is there? 7 MR. HERR: Most definitely. 8 MS. HEYL: So I think we can assume, 9 then, that the depth that you're going to will 10 have uranium in it since that's where the 11 you've decided the oil is, correct? 12 MR. HERR: I don't think there's a 13 you're trying to draw a correlation between 14 uranium and the oil, and I don't believe that's 15 correct. 16 MS. HEYL: Are you familiar with the Low 17 Level Radioactive Waste Management Act in 18 Illinois? 19 MR. HERR: No, ma'am. 20 MS. HEYL: That's all my questions. 21 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 22 MR. GHER: Good evening. My name is Brad 23 Gher, and I live on the property that you're Page 58 1 talking about. 2 MR. KNAPP: Spell your last name for 3 us. 4 MR. GHER: G-H-E-R. 5 I just have a few questions. 6 Are you aware that well drilling has been 7 tested on that section of ground already? 8 MR. HERR: Are you addressing me or 9 Mr. MacFarlane? 10 MR. GHER: I'll just address all three, 11 and you can choose who answers. 12 MR. MacFARLANE: Yes, there's been 13 previous drilling on the property. 14 MR. GHER: And was any oil found? 15 MR. MacFARLANE: There were shows. 16 MR. GHER: What depth did they go to? 17 MR. MacFARLANE: Approximately the same 18 depth we are going to. 19 MR. GHER: Approximately. That tells me 20 within 200 feet? 300 feet? 21 MR. MacFARLANE: Approximately. 22 MR. GHER: Actually, it was 960 feet, 23 many of them are. Page 59 1 But, obviously, I have a concern living 2 that close to it. Are you going to test my well? 3 MR. MacFARLANE: How far away would your 4 water well be from... 5 MR. GHER: This section surrounds my 6 home. So if you're going to have 13 wells, you're 7 going to be in very close proximity to my home. 8 MR. MacFARLANE: I guess the question 9 again is, how far away from our well to your water 10 well? 11 MR. GHER: What would the limitation be? 12 MR. MacFARLANE: There is none. You 13 just how far are you away? 14 MR. GHER: Let's say the first well, an 15 eighth of a mile. 16 MR. MacFARLANE: We could look at testing 17 your well. 18 MR. GHER: You said that earlier you 19 said to my neighbor that if it's proven that our 20 well has been contaminated by what you've done, 21 then you would correct the situation; is that 22 correct? 23 MR. MacFARLANE: That's typically what Page 60 1 happens, sir. 2 MR. GHER: To prove it, what do I have to 3 do? 4 MR. MacFARLANE: To prove it, again, your 5 water well would be tested by an independent lab, 6 and that would be the background of what your 7 water quality was prior to drilling. 8 Then you would have to show that if 9 you felt that your water was contaminated, you 10 would have to show that you've either performed 11 studies by, again, an independent lab, that the 12 water now is of different quality than prior to 13 drilling. 14 MR. GHER: Have you had this issue in the 15 past? 16 MR. MacFARLANE: No. 17 MR. GHER: The waste which you're going 18 to blend back into the soil and put back over the 19 farm ground, is that something I need to be 20 concerned with with a four-year-old grandson? 21 MR. MacFARLANE: If there was a concern 22 with the State, then they would not allow this to 23 be done. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (15) Pages 57 - 60 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 61 1 MR. GHER: If you lived there and had a 2 four-year-old grandson, personally, would you be 3 concerned? 4 MR. MacFARLANE: Being in the industry 5 and knowing what has gone, you know, through my 6 career, no. 7 MR. GHER: Are you aware that there are 8 drainage tiles from that farmland that cross my 9 property? 10 MR. MacFARLANE: I'm not particularly 11 aware of that, but that's always worked out 12 with with the operator and the landowner. 13 MR. GHER: The landowner being the 14 O'Rourkes or me? 15 MR. MacFARLANE: Are you a landowner, or 16 are you living on the land? 17 MR. GHER: I am the landowner. 18 MR. MacFARLANE: Okay. 19 MR. GHER: So? 20 MR. MacFARLANE: We would have a 21 representative, somebody like Bob Herr, and a 22 contracted land man go out and go prior to any 23 excavation, and all the accesses, to sit down with Page 62 1 you and where everything or your tiles are at 2 so they won't become damaged. 3 MR. GHER: Have you had any conversations 4 with any neighbors in that area yet? 5 MR. MacFARLANE: Personally, not me, no, 6 sir. 7 MR. GHER: Has anyone that works for your 8 company had conversations with any of the 9 neighbors? 10 MR. MacFARLANE: If that has, that has 11 come from our land department. 12 MR. GHER: I have no questions. 13 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 14 MS. WHITE: My name is Marilea, 15 M-A-R-I-L-E-A, last name is White. I live at 16 711 South Cottage in Normal. 17 My questions are directed to Mr. Herr, 18 who commented in the last meeting on October 7th 19 that there would be some flaring of methane gas as 20 it comes up from the well. 21 What would be some of the by-products of 22 the flaring itself? 23 MR. HERR: I don't know. I mean, I know Page 63 1 what normal combustion products are, but, you 2 know, most likely water, perhaps some CO2. 3 MS. WHITE: Is that all? 4 MR. HERR: That's all that come to 5 mind. 6 MS. WHITE: What about fine particulate 7 matter and VOCs, volatile organic compounds? 8 MR. HERR: I have no opinion on that. 9 MS. WHITE: Have these things come up in 10 other wells? 11 MR. HERR: I've never done an analysis 12 on for these types of products. I mean, just 13 to come out of a well, just all of a sudden appear 14 on the surface, I'm a little I don't understand 15 your question, I guess. 16 MS. WHITE: I'm talking about the all 17 of my questions are about the flaring. 18 MR. HERR: Okay. 19 MS. WHITE: When you burn the methane, 20 what's going to be the by-products of the methane? 21 I have a serious lung disease, and any chemicals 22 are toxic to me. So this is a real strong area of 23 interest. Page 64 1 MR. HERR: Yeah. I've never had an 2 analysis of a for flared gasses to be able to 3 speak to what all the by-products might be. 4 MS. WHITE: Has anybody done that 5 analysis? 6 MR. HERR: I can't speak for what anybody 7 has done, ma'am. 8 MS. WHITE: So you just burn these 9 products and hope that it's not a danger to 10 people's health; is that the case? 11 MR. HERR: No. We burn the products to 12 prevent hazards to people's health. 13 MS. WHITE: But I would think that the 14 burning would also be hazardous. 15 Under what conditions would the company 16 ever vent the raw methane directly into the 17 atmosphere as opposed to flaring it or burning it? 18 MR. HERR: If there was too small of 19 quantities to maintain a flare, then the methane 20 would vent into the atmosphere. 21 MS. WHITE: And is that not a danger? 22 MR. HERR: I work around it all the time. 23 I don't think it is. I mean... Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (16) Pages 61 - 64 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 65 1 MS. WHITE: But you don't really know? 2 MR. HERR: Well, I think the fact that 3 I'm still here and kicking is pretty good 4 testimony that it's not that hazardous. 5 MS. WHITE: Well, I'm still here and 6 kicking, too, but I have to be really, really 7 careful. 8 Are there any special measures that your 9 company would take that would prevent raw methane 10 from escaping into the atmosphere? 11 MR. HERR: I don't believe that there 12 would be any measures that they would take, no. 13 MS. WHITE: To avoid any health risks 14 that come from flaring and the negative impact on 15 the climate that venting might cause, would your 16 company be willing to take serious measures to 17 capture the methane that comes up in your oil 18 extraction process? 19 MR. HERR: I'm going to refer that to 20 Mr. MacFarlane because he's the one that makes 21 those types of decisions. 22 MS. WHITE: Okay. 23 MR. MacFARLANE: Could you repeat that Page 66 1 question again? 2 MS. WHITE: To avoid the health risks 3 that come from flaring and the negative impact on 4 climate change from venting methane, would your 5 company be willing to take serious measures to 6 capture the methane that comes up with your oil 7 extraction process? 8 MR. MacFARLANE: What would you call 9 "serious measures"? Classify it. 10 MS. WHITE: Anything that's going to keep 11 the methane from coming into my lungs or anybody 12 else's lungs or the lungs of the people who live 13 down there, closer than I do. 14 MR. MacFARLANE: They would follow 15 current rules and regulations. That's typical 16 standard operating procedures. I don't understand 17 what you mean by "other procedures." Can you 18 clarify or 19 MS. WHITE: Yes. I'm just concerned 20 about methane itself coming into the air, whether 21 it's burned or not. 22 Does your company take any special 23 precautions to prevent that from happening, or do Page 67 1 you just let it go and either burn it if it's 2 alive or you let it go if it's not? 3 MR. MacFARLANE: That's on a case by 4 case. That's a very vague, still, question. I'm 5 not... 6 MS. WHITE: Does your company take any 7 serious measures to capture the methane that comes 8 out of the oil wells? 9 MR. MacFARLANE: We follow the rules and 10 regulations set forth on that. 11 MS. WHITE: And what are those 12 regulations in the State of Illinois? 13 MR. MacFARLANE: Bob, do you want to just 14 clarify that? 15 MR. HERR: Well, if there's sufficient 16 quantity there to flare it, we're required to 17 flare it so it's vented as free methane. 18 MS. WHITE: Okay. But if it's not 19 sufficient, then you release it into the air? 20 MR. HERR: That's correct. 21 MS. WHITE: Okay. Could you not capture 22 and sell that methane? 23 MR. HERR: No. Page 68 1 MS. WHITE: Is there no way known to do 2 that? 3 MR. HERR: It's not economically 4 feasible. There's probably no market for it. The 5 companies that purchase natural gas are not 6 interested in the purchase of small quantities of 7 methane. They won't even talk to most oil 8 operators. 9 MS. WHITE: But wouldn't capturing the 10 methane be a step that you could take in order to 11 protect the health, safety and welfare of the 12 public, which happens to be the first standard 13 that you want to meet in order to have a special 14 use permit in our county? 15 MS. RUDOLPH: I think that we've covered 16 this, Ms. White. 17 MS. WHITE: Okay. Thank you. 18 MS. RUDOLPH: They said that they will 19 follow the regulations and they do not do extra 20 measures. So I think we're all clear on that. 21 MS. WHITE: Okay. Thank you. 22 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. One more hand. 23 MR. GRACE: Hi. Joseph Grace, G-R-A-C-E, Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (17) Pages 65 - 68 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 69 1 702 Tower Road in Peoria, Illinois. 2 I'm here for my neighbors. I do not live 3 in this county or around the drilling site, but I 4 feel for the four-year-old grandson and the other 5 ones that have to put up with your attitude. And 6 so I will begin. 7 With these drill sites next to the 8 person's yard, will you be drilling at night? 9 MR. HERR: Yes. 10 MR. GRACE: What kind of noise pollution 11 will you be creating? 12 MR. HERR: That was answered in the last 13 question the last session. 14 MR. GRACE: I'm sorry. I missed that the 15 first session. 16 MR. HERR: You can obtain a copy of the 17 transcript and read my answer. 18 MR. GRACE: I will. Thank you. 19 Will there be royalties paid to the 20 mineral for the mineral royalties to our 21 neighbors? 22 MR. HERR: No. 23 MR. GRACE: Has the company ever explored Page 70 1 any of our neighboring counties? 2 MR. HERR: I will have to direct that to 3 Mr. MacFarlane. 4 MR. MacFARLANE: I don't believe we have 5 in your neighboring counties. We have explored 6 and drilled in Macon County. 7 MR. GRACE: I meant "neighboring 8 counties" as in the State of Illinois. 9 MR. MacFARLANE: Macon County is in 10 Illinois. 11 MR. GRACE: I meant okay. 12 You say you have this is for 13 Mr. MacFar- I guess for the consultant or for 14 Mr. MacFarlane that you have no corporate 15 policy, in essence, of contamination, correct, 16 with our neighbors? If perhaps a friend's well 17 water was contaminated, you have no corporate 18 policy set forth as of right now; is that correct? 19 MR. MacFARLANE: With the well water, I 20 think it was described exactly what would take 21 place. 22 MR. GRACE: I guess I'm sorry. I 23 misdirected my question. Page 71 1 My question would be, would you be 2 interested or willing to have an individual 3 contract with the residents, in case of 4 contamination, prior to drilling? 5 MR. MacFARLANE: I don't believe we need 6 a contract. 7 MR. GRACE: Okay. Thank you very much. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 9 Okay. I'm not seeing any more hands for 10 questions. This would probably be a good time to 11 take a little break. But I want to when we 12 return first of all, I want everybody to be 13 sure, if they want to testify, that they're signed 14 up. 15 When we return, the Board is going to 16 call a witness. At the first night of our 17 hearing, some questions came up about the Mahomet 18 Aquifer. I believe they were raised in 19 questioning by Mr. Perschall. 20 The Board rules allow for the ZBA to ask 21 those present to address any specific issues the 22 Board may have. So we're going to call as a 23 witness Dr. Robert Nelson. And when I call and Page 72 1 when I call him, I want everyone to understand 2 that both the applicant and the interested parties 3 and objectors will have an opportunity to question 4 Dr. Nelson at the end of his testimony. 5 So we'll come back at 25 minutes after 6 8:00. 7 (Recess taken from 8:15 to 8:25 p.m.) 8 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. Dr. Nelson has 9 already been sworn in at our previous hearing. We 10 have a copy of Mr. of Dr. Nelson's resume that 11 has been made part of the record. 12 And would you state your name and 13 address, please. 14 DR. NELSON: Robert Nelson, 103 Miriam 15 Way, Towanda, Illinois 61776. 16 MS. RUDOLPH: Dr. Nelson, could you just 17 give us a brief rundown of your resume, your 18 credentials. 19 DR. NELSON: I'm a certified professional 20 geologist. I have taught at Illinois State 21 University 43 years, a variety of courses. I have 22 served as a geotechnical consultant for 23 engineering companies. I have served in the Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (18) Pages 69 - 72 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 73 1 Wyoming Oil & Gas Commission Office in Casper, 2 Wyoming, for a summer. And I'm a resident of 3 McLean County. 4 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 5 DR. NELSON: This was put together in 6 response to questions that were asked two weeks 7 ago about the Mahomet Aquifer. 8 So the materials that I'm going to be 9 using are available from the Illinois State 10 Geological Survey, of which I am a research 11 affiliate. 12 This is their public information. You 13 can go to their website, go to Illinois Water, and 14 you get interactive pages so that you can actually 15 work with, so you can see the information 16 firsthand. 17 This is showing the general relationship 18 of the Mahomet Aquifer in McLean County. The 19 aquifer in Illinois occupies a million and a 20 quarter acres and is the drinking water source for 21 about 850,000 residents. 22 So it is a major concern. It is just one 23 of the large aquifer systems in Illinois. We're Page 74 1 going to focus on its relationship to McLean 2 County and our oil well prospects. 3 This is a Google image with the aquifer 4 superimposed so that we can see the relative 5 position of a variety of things. 6 The first concern is the Town of Normal 7 well field located west of Bloomington, south of 8 Danvers, and northeast of Stanford. Second is the 9 O'Rourke well located a little bit southeast of 10 Downs. Third is the Wapella East oil field. And 11 fourth is the Illinois State Geological Survey 12 Stratigraphic and Aquifer Test that was drilled as 13 part of a major study of the aquifer. The survey 14 has published five different reports on the 15 Mahomet Aquifer in Illinois. 16 Taking these in sort of order, this is 17 the first well in the Normal well field. It was 18 drilled, as you can see, in 1974. This is after 19 14 exploratory wells were drilled in 1969, and 20 another 8 wells in 1973, to define where to put a 21 well in. 22 This is the well. And notice that the 23 top of the productive zone is at 474 feet Page 75 1 elevation. It was a 24-hour pump test. During 2 the 24-hour pump test, it emitted 1400 gallons of 3 water a minute. There was only a 10-foot decline 4 in the water pressure head, or what we call the 5 piezometric surface. This is an excellent well 6 and formed at the foundation for the well field. 7 Moving to the last one, this is the 8 geologic survey test well. I'm showing the header 9 of a geophysical log, and to the right is a gamma 10 ray neutron of that log or of that well. 11 In this case, the geologic survey did all 12 of the logging with survey personnel in terms of 13 sample descriptions, as well as the geologic 14 survey down-hole geophysical tool. 15 I have annotated parts of the gamma ray 16 neutron log showing the aquifer at the base. 17 Notice how the the squiggly lines, which are 18 actually recording the gamma radiation both from 19 the natural source and from an induced source. 20 In reality, neutrons are emitted from a 21 source rock. It goes out, it interacts with 22 fluids in the water. The neutrons are slowed 23 down, captured, upsets the atomic structure, and Page 76 1 the gamma ray is given back off and recorded. 2 Gamma ray neutron logs are extremely important in 3 identifying various rock materials. 4 Taking a look at the let me go back 5 here. 6 What I've got is a cartoon showing the 7 Mahomet Aquifer, if you drive down Interstate 55 8 from Bloomington to Lincoln, shown here with the 9 yellow line. This is based on a variety of data 10 sources. 11 But, again, it's showing the Mahomet 12 Aquifer at depths of several hundred feet, but 13 below bedrock or I should say 500 feet 14 elevation. 15 The materials above it labeled glacial 16 and stream sediments are extremely complicated. 17 And above the Mahomet Aquifer, there are a number 18 of small local aquifers. 19 Just to point out, I live outside of 20 Towanda. I actually have a well field in my 21 backyard. I have water supply wells. And we are 22 obtaining water from glacial sediments at a depth 23 of 168 feet, and our water is loaded with methane. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (19) Pages 73 - 76 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 77 1 I get to flare it out of two-liter bottles for 2 demonstrations at parties. 3 That's what's called biogenic methane. 4 It's because the glacier overrode an old soil and 5 swamp, and that's what decaying to give rise to 6 the methane. 7 Methane is also found in our deep oil or 8 our regular oil deposits, and it is necessary to 9 allow the oil to flow. When the methane is all 10 removed, the oil does not flow well at all. 11 The second cross-section I would like to 12 have you look at starts at Route 9 and goes 13 straight south through the O'Rourke number 1 14 the Wapella East oil field is actually off of my 15 Google Earth image into Macon County. 16 Showing the locations of the O'Rourke 17 number 1, the Wapella East oil field, and the 18 Mahomet Aquifer, and these illustrate that neither 19 the oil field nor the O'Rourke number 1 would have 20 direct connection to the Mahomet Aquifer. 21 This is the location of the O'Rourke 22 number 1 with a red circle. Just a little bit to 23 the left and down from it is a well that was Page 78 1 drilled by Union Hill Oil I should say Gas 2 Company in 1960. It's part of a regional 3 structure test that was used looking for gas 4 storage fields. They drilled numerous wells in 5 McLean, DeWitt, and Macon Counties. 6 This is an electric log of that well. 7 Things to note: Right at the top is the top of 8 the bedrock. Above that, there's a little bit of 9 material that I will show in the next slide. But 10 the top of the log is cut off because of casing. 11 So this well was only cased to 60 feet or only 12 cased to 40 feet. 13 What you'll see here is that the sand and 14 gravel, which is the water supply in that section 15 15, is out of a horizon at a depth somewhere 16 between 85 feet and 100 feet, and the rest 17 directly on top of a hard dolomite. 18 Okay. This is showing the location of 19 the O'Rourke number 1. And I apologize, I should 20 have made it bigger or brighter. But it's a 21 screen capture showing the depths of the water 22 wells in the area, generally less than 100 feet, 23 within a mile of the O'Rourke number 1 well. Page 79 1 Off to the north and east of the O'Rourke 2 number 1 is one of the aquifers in the glacial 3 materials. 4 Continuing south on our cartoon is the 5 Wapella East oil field. And what you can see is 6 all sorts of blue dots, which represent the water 7 wells in the area, the Mahomet Aquifer. 8 What I would like to point out is a water 9 well, the Toohill number 2, which is drilled 10 immediately to the southwest of the Wapella East 11 oil field, didn't have much of an aquifer in here. 12 And the important thing is, it failed a pump test, 13 so that was never put onto production as an oil 14 as a water well. And, again, it's showing the top 15 of the bedrock at 580 580 feet, which is well 16 above the Mahomet Aquifer. 17 Showing the Wapella oil field, a series 18 of wells that are drilled on a regular spacing. 19 And, again, the dots that you can see here are 20 previous oil well attempts in the McLean and 21 DeWitt area. 22 This is a detail of the Wapella East 23 field. Again, it's hard to see, but the dots that Page 80 1 have a slash through them are abandoned oil wells. 2 The one well that is sort of important 3 lies to the north. It's this well right 4 here I'll point to it. That is a salt water 5 disposal well. And they're disposing of water in 6 the St. Peter Sandstone at a depth of around 2,000 7 feet. 8 And with that, I am open to questions. 9 MS. RUDOLPH: Questions from members of 10 the Board? 11 MR. FINNIGAN: Do you know of any 12 problems that the this Wapella site has had 13 over the years? 14 DR. NELSON: I am unaware. I have not 15 checked on that. 16 MR. FINNIGAN: You say you have not 17 checked on it? 18 DR. NELSON: No, I have not. 19 MS. RUDOLPH: Dr. Nelson, are you 20 familiar with other states' regulations this is 21 a big question. I don't have anyone else to ask. 22 But it was stated that other that 23 Illinois does not regulate any vertical drilling. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (20) Pages 77 - 80 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 81 1 So do you know if other states do regulate that? 2 DR. NELSON: I am unaware of any other 3 regulations in other states. 4 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. And it was also 5 stated tonight that the Mahomet Aquifer has been 6 drilled 600 times. Could you explain what that 7 means? Is it accurate, or what do we know about 8 that? 9 DR. NELSON: I'm not sure what's meant by 10 that. I know that the Mahomet Aquifer has been 11 drilled for water wells. But also from one of the 12 previous slides, we can see just from the blue 13 patterns, those are the water wells in the Mahomet 14 Aquifer. Four hundred has got to be an extremely 15 conservative number. 16 MR. KURITZ: This proposed well, in your 17 opinion, is it close enough to the aquifer or far 18 enough away, either one, to have a whole lot of 19 effect on the aquifer? 20 DR. NELSON: It is my opinion that it 21 will have no effect on the aquifer. 22 MS. TURNER: Could you tell us, in your 23 experience, since you're not aware of any other Page 82 1 regulations as far as the vertical drilling goes, 2 why that would be? In other words, what that 3 tells me is, it's viewed as a pretty safe process. 4 Is there anything that you know of that 5 is being looked at because it's not a safe 6 process? 7 DR. NELSON: Can you clarify your 8 question? 9 MS. TURNER: Sorry about that. 10 I'm wanting to know, why isn't it 11 regulated? We regulate pretty much everything. 12 Why aren't we regulating vertical drilling, in 13 general, in states, in Illinois or, it sounds 14 like, many other states? 15 DR. NELSON: Well, we I do know that 16 Illinois has an inspector that goes out. I don't 17 know what he does. I don't know what parameters 18 he looks at because that's out of my area of 19 firsthand knowledge. 20 MS. TURNER: I appreciate that, and 21 I that was a very large question to ask. 22 MR. KURITZ: As far as the drilling and 23 radiation and bringing up radioactive materials, Page 83 1 has it been your experience I mean, I would 2 assume that don't you get those same kind of 3 same kind of things with a water well? 4 DR. NELSON: Can I depart just for a 5 second? 6 How many in the audience have had a radon 7 test in your home? 8 Where did they do the radon test? In the 9 basement. 10 Do you know where the radon is the 11 highest in your house? It's in your shower 12 because all groundwater carries radon with it. 13 Radon in your shower is about 200 times more 14 concentrated than in your basement. 15 How many of you have real granite 16 countertops? 17 Okay. Have you ever had a radiation test 18 done on your countertop? Because granite is the 19 number one source of radiation because 20 that's the minerals in there host the 21 uranium. 22 How many of you have... 23 FROM THE AUDIENCE: May I ask you a Page 84 1 question? Then why 2 MS. RUDOLPH: No. No. 3 DR. NELSON: I only have one more thing. 4 How many of you have strain gravel around 5 your foundation to make it look nice? 6 FROM THE AUDIENCE: I object. If he can 7 ask us questions, we should be allowed to ask 8 questions. 9 MR. KNAPP: You will. 10 MS. RUDOLPH: You will be allowed to ask 11 questions, but you need to look at the order again 12 of where we are. 13 DR. NELSON: I stepped out of this 14 because 15 FROM THE AUDIENCE: Why does he get to 16 ask us? 17 MS. RUDOLPH: We're at the point where 18 the Board may ask questions. Then it will be 19 staff, then it will be the applicant, and then it 20 will be interested parties and objectors. 21 Everybody gets to question him, but not now. 22 DR. NELSON: But my point is that radon 23 is not an issue. And if you take a look at the Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (21) Pages 81 - 84 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 85 1 real problem areas, it's not from radon in an oil 2 well drilling. 3 MS. RUDOLPH: Any further questions from 4 members of the Board? 5 MR. FINNIGAN: Do you have any knowledge 6 of the prior drilling on this property? 7 DR. NELSON: Yes. 8 MR. FINNIGAN: What can you tell us about 9 that? 10 DR. NELSON: The first drilling was done 11 with the the exploring for gas storage fields, 12 and they did do descriptions of the cores and 13 materials that were found there. But it's out of 14 my purview to indicate about the success ratio or 15 the potential. 16 MR. FINNIGAN: How many wells were 17 drilled there? 18 DR. NELSON: There are two previous wells 19 in that section. 20 MR. FINNIGAN: And they are at a depth of 21 how much? 22 DR. NELSON: They vary because the 23 geological structure changes elevation. But, Page 86 1 basically, in the neighborhood of 1,050 to 2 950 feet. 3 MR. FINNIGAN: Do you know of any 4 problems that these that these previous wells 5 have caused? 6 DR. NELSON: I have no knowledge. 7 MR. FINNIGAN: I mean you have no 8 knowledge, but, I mean, you have no knowledge that 9 there was a problem, or you don't know? 10 DR. NELSON: I don't know. 11 MR. FINNIGAN: You don't know. 12 Well, it's a question I would like to 13 have answered because, I mean, something was done 14 prior on the same property. We should have some 15 information on that and see you know, if it 16 hasn't been a problem, maybe it's not going to be 17 a problem, but if it has been a problem, I think 18 we've got a bigger problem. I want to know that 19 answer. 20 DR. NELSON: I don't have the answer. 21 MS. RUDOLPH: Do you know where we could 22 find the answer? 23 DR. NELSON: You would probably have to Page 87 1 talk to one of the landowners that they've 2 actually drilled the well on, or previous wells. 3 MS. TURNER: The other concern that we've 4 had come up is well, we've had a few. But one 5 of the other concerns is the salt water issue and 6 disposing of the salt water. And here you 7 indicated that in the Wapella, they have the salt 8 water well. 9 DR. NELSON: Yes. 10 MS. TURNER: Is that common practice? 11 You know, there have been a lot of wells drilled 12 throughout Illinois. One of our witnesses here 13 has a lot of experience in Southern Illinois. 14 Are you familiar with those at all 15 DR. NELSON: No. 16 MS. TURNER: and what they do in that 17 area? 18 DR. NELSON: No, I do not know. 19 MS. TURNER: Are you familiar with the 20 success of the salt water well or the lack of 21 success of it at all? Have you looked at that at 22 all? 23 DR. NELSON: I just looked they were Page 88 1 using it for disposal of salt water. 2 MS. TURNER: Okay. 3 MR. KURITZ: Do you see any dangers from 4 the salt water going back in as far as I mean, 5 is it contaminated, or is it going to just kind of 6 go through a refining process like water does as 7 it filters through the rocks and stuff anyway? 8 DR. NELSON: I'm trying to understand 9 your question. 10 MR. KURITZ: Do you believe that pumping 11 salt water into a well a couple thousand feet 12 down are there any things that we should 13 that should be of caution or harm that it could do 14 to the... 15 DR. NELSON: Okay. If I use the example 16 from the Wapella East field, St. Peter Sandstone 17 is able to take the water readily, and it is 18 already nonpollutable water in the St. Peter 19 Sandstone. It's naturally degraded. 20 So that's why they were able to get a 21 permit to put a disposal well in, because it was 22 going into naturally degraded water. 23 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. Does staff have Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (22) Pages 85 - 88 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 89 1 questions? 2 MR. DICK: Does deep well injection harm 3 portable water supplies in shallow aquifers? 4 DR. NELSON: No. 5 MR. DICK: Do deep well injections cause 6 earthquakes? 7 DR. NELSON: Yes. 8 MR. DICK: In what ways, and in what 9 areas would they be more likely to cause 10 earthquakes? 11 DR. NELSON: There are several places 12 that injection of wastewater or waterfloods or 13 hazardous liquids have induced earthquakes. 14 The first documented example was with the 15 Rocky Mountain Arsenal in Colorado, injecting 16 phosgene precursor liquids into the deep part of 17 the Denver basin near the Golden Fault. And the 18 tremor activities started about two years after 19 injection at depths of over 18,000 feet. 20 In the range of the oil field in 21 Colorado, they have a documentation of microseisms 22 and small earthquakes that mimic the injection 23 rates for their waterflood operation. Page 90 1 In both of these cases, we're dealing 2 with an area that has been pre-stressed by 3 tectonic activity, known faults with recent 4 offsets. 5 Probably the most best known right now 6 is the probable connection of injection wells in 7 Oklahoma. 8 MR. DICK: Does the drilling mud that 9 they would be taking from the well site and 10 spreading it on the land, does that have is 11 it knowing what the log would show as far as 12 the mud and the rock that's coming out, would it 13 be radioactive in Illinois? 14 DR. NELSON: Not beyond background level. 15 MR. DICK: When drilling oil wells in 16 this part of the county, would you encounter 17 significant amounts of radioactivity? 18 DR. NELSON: No. 19 MR. DICK: Why not? 20 DR. NELSON: Because the rock material is 21 not one that's host to large quantities of the 22 uranium series. 23 MR. DICK: Could you explain that just a Page 91 1 little bit more? 2 DR. NELSON: Uranium is generally 3 insoluble, so it is not typically found with 4 marine sediments. 5 The only exception is with the dark 6 marine shales, which have lots of organic 7 material, which creates a reducing environment, 8 which would cause the uranium to attach to the 9 clays in that material. 10 So, typically, the dolomites, the 11 limestones, the sandstones, have very, very little 12 uranium, and the dark black shales would be 13 the have a higher concentration of 14 uranium. 15 MR. DICK: Would the spreading of the 16 drilling mud on or mixing it with the soils and 17 the chemicals that they've used in the drilling 18 mud be harmful? 19 DR. NELSON: I do not believe they're 20 harmful. 21 MR. DICK: Would they be harmful as far 22 as the plants growing on them or if animals were 23 to graze on them? Page 92 1 DR. NELSON: The experience has been 2 from other places, is that it is not harmful. 3 MR. DICK: Do you think it is likely that 4 if the casings of this well developed a leak, that 5 it would go into the Mahomet Aquifer? 6 DR. NELSON: No. 7 MR. DICK: Why not? 8 DR. NELSON: Because it's positioned away 9 from the Mahomet Aquifer. The casing is going to 10 be set to depths that would be below the Mahomet 11 Aquifer. 12 MR. DICK: But what if the casing leaked? 13 DR. NELSON: There wouldn't be a 14 hydraulic head to drive it to the Mahomet Aquifer. 15 MR. DICK: That's all I have. 16 MS. RUDOLPH: Any other staff have 17 questions? 18 Does the applicant have questions for 19 Dr. Nelson? 20 MR. WETZEL: Just a couple. 21 MS. RUDOLPH: Oh, I'm sorry. 22 MS. TURNER: I just had a couple just 23 a couple other things first. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (23) Pages 89 - 92 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 93 1 One, they talked about the pressure of 2 the flow, the blowout of the well. Is it your 3 experience in Illinois that this would be an 4 issue? 5 DR. NELSON: In reality, no, not for an 6 oil well. 7 To answer your question more 8 specifically, Nicor had a blowout of a well in 9 their lake or in their Lexington field about 10 eight years ago which was rapidly contained by 11 Nicor with the assist of the local mutual aid fire 12 departments. 13 MS. TURNER: And is there a difference 14 between that would have been a gas. Is there a 15 difference between that and what an oil well 16 DR. NELSON: Oh, yes. 17 MS. TURNER: would have been? 18 DR. NELSON: Oh, yes. The Nicor field is 19 under tremendous pressure because they are 20 injecting a few thousand feet, and it is 21 displacing water in the Mount Simon sandstone. So 22 it takes a very high pressure to do that. 23 The bottom hole pressure in the Wapella Page 94 1 East field was so low, that they couldn't get 2 drilling fluids and mud and water to the surface. 3 So there's no there's no likelihood. 4 MS. TURNER: Would you consider that the 5 depth that they're going you were talking about 6 seismic activity and causing earthquakes in the 7 Denver area at 18,000 feet. We're talking about a 8 thousand feet here. 9 Would you consider that a danger for I 10 know we're on a fault line somewhere around here. 11 Would you consider that a danger? 12 DR. NELSON: No. 13 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. At this point, the 14 applicant may ask questions of Dr. Nelson. 15 MR. WETZEL: Dr. Nelson, you talked a 16 little bit about the where the aquifer is and 17 how close it comes to this proposed drilling site. 18 We have a study that we're going to 19 present later in our rebuttal, but our belief is 20 that it's approximately six miles away. Would 21 that be consistent with what your findings were? 22 DR. NELSON: Yes. 23 MR. WETZEL: And so your testimony about Page 95 1 the likelihood of any implications for that from 2 this particular well are based on the fact that 3 it's six miles, give or take, but six miles, 4 approximately, away from the nearest point of the 5 aquifer? 6 DR. NELSON: Pretty much. 7 MR. WETZEL: Now, also, you testified 8 that there have been a number of wells drilled in 9 this area, and, in fact, some are shown on your 10 map many are shown on your map drawing. 11 And I should apologize here now because 12 we're not going to have this sophisticated we 13 have one of the old-time roll-up. But we will 14 present something quite similar to this. 15 But having said that, there have been a 16 number of wells, have there not, that have 17 actually been drilled over the Mahomet Aquifer and 18 into and actually through the Mahomet Aquifer; 19 isn't that true? 20 DR. NELSON: Yes. 21 MR. WETZEL: And that would be measured 22 in hundreds at least? 23 DR. NELSON: I would think so. Page 96 1 MR. WETZEL: To your knowledge, has there 2 ever been any implication to the Mahomet Aquifer 3 that could be related to the well drilling that 4 has taken place over in into the Mahomet 5 Aquifer? 6 DR. NELSON: I have seen no reports. 7 MR. WETZEL: And is it also true that you 8 are a professor and have been involved in for 9 many years in, I assume, teaching classes that 10 deal generally with the subjects that we're 11 talking about tonight, and probably not 12 exclusively those subjects, but is it a fact that 13 if there had been any kind of a significant 14 problem or even a slight problem, that you 15 probably would be aware of it? 16 DR. NELSON: Yes. 17 MR. WETZEL: And you are aware of no 18 complaints? 19 DR. NELSON: I am aware of no problems. 20 MR. WETZEL: Insofar as the Wapella issue 21 is concerned, the wells field there has been in 22 operation for some 50 years; is that true? 23 DR. NELSON: Yes. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (24) Pages 93 - 96 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 97 1 MR. WETZEL: And to your knowledge I 2 think you said you knew of none. If there was a 3 problem there, do you think that you would be 4 aware of it? 5 DR. NELSON: Probably. 6 MR. WETZEL: And in connection with the 7 proposal that is here under consideration and the 8 well drilling technique that's been proposed and 9 discussed, is that very similar to the technique 10 and the process that is employed in literally 11 thousands of wells that are located within the 12 State of Illinois? 13 DR. NELSON: I would say it's standard 14 procedure. 15 MR. WETZEL: And to your knowledge, other 16 than the recently passed tracking regulations by 17 the State of Illinois, are there any regulations 18 by EPA or DNR, of your knowledge, that would apply 19 to the particular process and the particular 20 operation that's been described by these folks? 21 DR. NELSON: Could you repeat the 22 question? 23 MR. WETZEL: Yes. Poor question. Page 98 1 Are there regulations that would apply to 2 this particular operation? 3 DR. NELSON: I believe it's within the 4 standard guidance of the industry. 5 MR. WETZEL: And is it your understanding 6 that the process really involves an applicant 7 securing from DNR a permit? 8 DR. NELSON: That is correct. 9 MR. WETZEL: And once they have a permit, 10 if you were in a community that didn't have a 11 special use requirement, they could immediately 12 begin to drill? 13 DR. NELSON: That is correct. 14 MR. WETZEL: And it is because of the 15 practice here and the provisions in our zoning 16 code that require a special use permit and require 17 a hearing such as this, that we are having this 18 discussion; is that correct? 19 DR. NELSON: That is correct. 20 MR. WETZEL: I have no more questions. 21 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 22 Before we begin with the questions of the 23 interested parties' or objectors' questions, I Page 99 1 just want to make a comment. 2 I strongly suspect that there may be some 3 people out there that may disagree with some of 4 the things that Dr. Nelson testified to, but I 5 want to stress that we're not going to have any 6 belligerent-type questions. Okay? We're going to 7 have questions, but they have to be civil 8 questions. 9 So I'll depend on all of you to do that. 10 Who wants to be first? 11 Just state your name and address again. 12 We're going to do this over and over. It helps 13 for the record in many ways. 14 DR. RAU: It's Bill Rau, 313 Vista Drive 15 in Bloomington. 16 Dr. Nelson, I have a couple of questions 17 about radioactivity and salt water injection 18 wells. 19 Wouldn't you describe the Southern 20 Illinois oil field as one of the more radioactive 21 oil fields in the United States? 22 DR. NELSON: No. 23 DR. RAU: Well, there's a study by Gordon Page 100 1 Otto that was turned into the American Petroleum 2 Institute back in 1989 and that was updated with 3 U.S. Geological Survey data that shows that 4 Southern Illinois is five times above the median 5 for oil fields in the United States. 6 DR. NELSON: That's in the far southern 7 part of Illinois, in the deeper part with the New 8 Albany Shale. 9 DR. RAU: But don't we have Maquoketa 10 Shale in this area? 11 DR. NELSON: Maquoketa. 12 DR. RAU: Sorry. 13 DR. NELSON: Maquoketa Shale does not 14 have the same organic composition. The New Albany 15 Shale is a very dark, organic, rich shale which is 16 source rock for the petroleum in Southern 17 Illinois. The Maquoketa Shale is a medium gray 18 plating shale and has a in reality, a higher 19 sulfur content. 20 DR. RAU: So, in other words, salt that's 21 nothing else? 22 DR. NELSON: Yes. 23 DR. RAU: But it's my understanding that Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (25) Pages 97 - 100 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 101 1 even if the levels of radioactivity in source 2 rock, or whatever migrates through the oil, can be 3 low, can't this be concentrated in pipe and 4 equipment and in tank bottoms 5 DR. NELSON: Yes. 6 DR. RAU: over time? 7 DR. NELSON: Yes. As a matter of fact, 8 there's a study on the Marcellus Shale that talks 9 about the accumulation of radionuclides in scale. 10 DR. RAU: Yes. And under the old Oil and 11 Gas Act, part 240, are there any regulations for 12 either testing or tests on, for example, tank 13 bottom sludge or anything else? 14 DR. NELSON: I'm unfamiliar with the 15 provision. 16 DR. RAU: Yeah. Well, it's 240.940C and 17 D. And in those provisions, oil producers are 18 allowed to take tank sludging and basically 19 landfill it, even though they haven't tested it. 20 So my concern is this: The work of James 21 Otten of the U.S. Geological Survey again found 22 fairly elevated levels of Radium 226 23 MS. RUDOLPH: I need you to get to your Page 102 1 question, Dr. Rau. 2 DR. RAU: Yeah. So the question is, 3 can't they landfill this material without testing 4 it? 5 DR. NELSON: I don't know. 6 DR. RAU: On the class two injection 7 wells, isn't it possible for those to have a 8 mechanical failure a mechanical integrity 9 failure? 10 DR. NELSON: That's what went wrong at 11 the Nicor field. 12 DR. RAU: Yeah. So it can happen? You 13 can have these failures on these 14 DR. NELSON: On an injection, yes. 15 DR. RAU: And they're only tested every 16 five years? 17 DR. NELSON: Well, Nicor cycles every 18 year. 19 DR. RAU: Yeah. But I mean for the oil 20 and gas industry, isn't the EPA minimum 21 requirement to test only once every five years? 22 DR. NELSON: I believe so. 23 DR. RAU: Yeah. So if an operator were Page 103 1 to be pumping too much of this stuff in and there 2 was an integrity failure, it could be almost five 3 years before that was discovered? 4 DR. NELSON: Theoretically. 5 DR. RAU: Yeah. And can't these salt 6 water plumes that are emitted if there's a failure 7 travel miles underground? They have a lot of 8 chloride in them, so the chloride levels of the 9 salt are pretty high. 10 DR. NELSON: Without knowing the 11 hydraulic conductivity of the material, I cannot 12 answer that. 13 DR. RAU: You wouldn't be able to say 14 that. 15 But it can happen though? It can travel 16 a fair distance underground, the distance varying 17 on the characteristics of the rock and the like? 18 DR. NELSON: In time. 19 DR. RAU: Yeah, in time. Yes, it takes a 20 long time. Yeah. 21 Do you know of any instances of people 22 who have lost their water wells to contamination 23 from class two injection wells or salt water Page 104 1 disposals? 2 DR. NELSON: I am unaware of... 3 DR. RAU: Okay. Well, thank you very 4 much. 5 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 6 I'm definitely going to need you to spell 7 your name. 8 MR. CAPPARELLA: I will. My name is 9 Angelo Capparella, A-N-G-E-L-O, last name is 10 Capparella, C-A-P-P-A-R-E-L-L-A. Address is 11 907 South Fell, F-E-L-L, Avenue in Normal. 12 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 13 MR. CAPPARELLA: Okay. Thank you. 14 Dr. Nelson, would it be possible to go 15 back to an earlier slide that you showed which had 16 the aquifer, the bedrock, the O'Rourke, the 17 glacial and stream sediments? Do you recall the 18 one I mean? That one, yes. Thank you. 19 So I just want to make sure I'm looking 20 at it correctly. From what I can see, the way 21 that's being drawn is the bedrock is below the 22 Mahomet Aquifer, and the glacial and stream 23 sediments are above the Mahomet Aquifer. Is that Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (26) Pages 101 - 104 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 105 1 what I'm seeing? 2 DR. NELSON: That is correct. 3 MR. CAPPARELLA: Okay. And in terms of 4 the location from the O'Rourke well, straight line 5 distance to the furthest to the right-hand side 6 of the aquifer itself, you were agreeing that's 7 about six miles roughly? 8 DR. NELSON: Roughly. 9 MR. CAPPARELLA: Roughly. That's close 10 enough. 11 I had a question about this graphic in 12 terms of, I don't see any shallow water or local 13 aquifer shown between the O'Rourke well and the 14 Mahomet Aquifer. Is that meant to indicate that 15 there are none? 16 DR. NELSON: No. It just does not show 17 the local because the distortion of the cartoon, 18 you wouldn't be able to see them. 19 MR. CAPPARELLA: Do we know if there are 20 local ones there? Has that particular transect 21 been mapped sufficiently in a three-dimensional 22 way that we would know if there are or are not 23 local or shallow water aquifers across that Page 106 1 six-mile transect? 2 DR. NELSON: Yes, it has been mapped, and 3 there are some local aquifers. 4 MR. CAPPARELLA: There are some local 5 aquifers? 6 DR. NELSON: Yes. 7 MR. CAPPARELLA: Do we know if any of 8 those local aquifers have any kind of connectivity 9 to the Mahomet Aquifer? 10 DR. NELSON: Now we're going to have to 11 step back a little bit because there has been 12 demonstrated a vertical hydraulic connectivity 13 into the Mahomet Aquifer over around Allerton 14 Park. 15 MR. CAPPARELLA: Uh-huh. Which is south 16 of there 17 DR. NELSON: Yes. 18 MR. CAPPARELLA: or southeast? 19 Yeah. So, really, we don't know if 20 there's that type of connectivity between any 21 shallow water aquifers that aren't shown on this 22 map and the Mahomet Aquifer in this particular 23 transect area? Page 107 1 DR. NELSON: Based on the work that I 2 have done and I have done tracing a variety of 3 profiles across here I see no connectivity 4 between the local aquifers and the glacial and 5 fluvial materials and the Mahomet Aquifer right 6 here. 7 MR. CAPPARELLA: And you say you have 8 mapped at the appropriate scale, that you would 9 know if that was or was not true? 10 DR. NELSON: Yes. It would the 11 cartoon it would not be a cartoon. It's 12 actually a very constrained geologic 13 cross-section. 14 MR. CAPPARELLA: Is that kind of data 15 available that could be provided to an interested 16 party to see, or is it privileged data or 17 unpublished data? 18 DR. NELSON: It's unpublished data. 19 MR. CAPPARELLA: So you have unpublished 20 data that you're using to base your opinion on? 21 DR. NELSON: Yes. 22 MR. CAPPARELLA: Is that unpublished data 23 planning to be published, or is it something that Page 108 1 could be part of the public domain? 2 DR. NELSON: Well, part of it was in an 3 Illinois Academy of Science presentation about 15 4 years ago. 5 MR. CAPPARELLA: So just the abstract 6 would be available 7 DR. NELSON: Yes. 8 MR. CAPPARELLA: and not the actual 9 map? 10 DR. NELSON: Right. 11 MR. CAPPARELLA: Okay. I was wondering, 12 is it true that the glacial and stream sediment 13 material is more permeable than the bedrock? 14 DR. NELSON: By several magnitudes. 15 MR. CAPPARELLA: Okay. And this kind of 16 leads to my question, which is, if there was a 17 man-made accident or error made, or a seismic 18 event that caused a rupture of the casing anywhere 19 along the well between the bedrock and the 20 surface, and we have fluids that have been coming 21 up and going down, and because the glacial and 22 stream sediments are both more permeable and there 23 are intervening shallow water aquifers in between, Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (27) Pages 105 - 108 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 109 1 as I think you just mentioned, wouldn't we expect 2 any of that fluid material, as it exits the 3 casing, to be able to move fairly well either 4 through the glacial and stream sediments or in a 5 stepping-stone fashion through the shallow aquifer 6 if it is more permeable and you have more 7 intervening waters? 8 DR. NELSON: It is more permeable, but 9 the water well logs that I looked at in the 10 general area don't show any continuity of some of 11 these sand bodies. It would appear in one well 12 and not in another well. 13 MR. CAPPARELLA: Right. But in terms of 14 the sediments themselves being permeable, whether 15 there's shallow aquifer there or not, you're 16 saying by permeable, that fluids that might escape 17 from a broken casing could move through those 18 sediments; is that correct? 19 DR. NELSON: Yes, but the hydraulic 20 conductivity is very low. 21 MR. CAPPARELLA: Right. But so what 22 would you if you can address or do we know or 23 can we predict, would any I guess I was Page 110 1 thinking that the reason for the casing is not 2 just for the well integrity to, you know, provide, 3 but also, as I understand, to prevent the entry of 4 any fluids going up or down from getting into 5 surrounding areas where they were not previously. 6 Is that the is that a partial function of the 7 casing? 8 DR. NELSON: No. The main function of 9 the casing is to hold the hole. 10 MR. CAPPARELLA: Is to hold the hole. So 11 the casing has no function in preventing 12 substances moving up or down from moving 13 horizontally? 14 DR. NELSON: It does have that, but its 15 primary function is to hold the hole. 16 MR. CAPPARELLA: Right. No, I understand 17 that. But it has a secondary function of 18 DR. NELSON: Yes. 19 MR. CAPPARELLA: trying to, if you 20 will, prevent entry of fluids into adjacent layers 21 as things are going up and down? 22 DR. NELSON: Yes. 23 MR. CAPPARELLA: Okay. So what does Page 111 1 happen in a situation like this if there is, say, 2 a significant rupture in the casing somewhere 3 above the bedrock into the top? Does the stuff 4 just sit there, or does it move through these 5 permeable layers? That's what I was confused by 6 in terms of what you're saying. 7 DR. NELSON: Well, it depends on, again, 8 the hydraulic conductivity and the hydraulic 9 grading. 10 MR. CAPPARELLA: Do we know that the 11 hydraulic conductivity and the hydraulic radium is 12 in the six-mile transect? 13 DR. NELSON: We know the ranges of 14 hydraulic conductivity. 15 MR. CAPPARELLA: Is that enough 16 information to predict what would happen if there 17 was a breakage in the casing in terms of fluids 18 that are, you know, going up and down? 19 DR. NELSON: I don't know how you would 20 be able to detect the migration without putting in 21 a whole batch of observation wells. 22 MR. CAPPARELLA: So in your professional 23 opinion, we don't really know whether fluids that Page 112 1 escape through a rupture in the casing would or 2 would not reach the Mahomet Aquifer at some time 3 point through the permeable sediments and the 4 stepping-stone aquifers? 5 DR. NELSON: I don't believe it would 6 because of the distance involved and the low 7 hydraulic conductivities. 8 MR. CAPPARELLA: But we don't have the 9 data that actually measures what those hydraulic 10 conductivities are or model what would happen with 11 the movement? 12 DR. NELSON: No. The models are all 13 based on the aquifers rather than the confining 14 rocks. 15 MR. CAPPARELLA: Right. So we basically 16 just don't know? 17 DR. NELSON: Don't know. 18 MR. CAPPARELLA: Okay. Thank you. 19 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 20 I was calling on oh, I'm sorry. Okay. 21 I need to make sure my peripheral vision is 22 working. 23 MS. DANNENBRING: Dawn Dannenbring. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (28) Pages 109 - 112 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 113 1 COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. Could you 2 repeat that? 3 MS. DANNENBRING: Do I need to press 4 that? 5 Okay. Dawn Dannenbring, 208 Kreitzer 6 Avenue in Bloomington. 7 MS. RUDOLPH: Spell your name, please. 8 MS. DANNENBRING: D-A-N-N-E-N-B-R-I-N-G. 9 Is it professor, Doctor? 10 DR. NELSON: Yes. 11 MS. DANNENBRING: Okay. You spoke about 12 radionuclides before, and you specifically talked 13 about radon and uranium? 14 DR. NELSON: Yes. 15 MS. DANNENBRING: But is it not true that 16 you skipped talking about radium, which is 17 probably the the radionuclide we would be most 18 likely to see in a drilling operation for an oil 19 well? 20 DR. NELSON: The radium would be in the 21 water. The radon is the released gas. 22 MS. DANNENBRING: Correct. 23 DR. NELSON: So that's why I skipped over Page 114 1 that, because that was the discussion of 2 releases. 3 MS. DANNENBRING: Okay. And is it not 4 true that while the half-life of radon is four 5 days, the half-life of radium is 1600 years? 6 DR. NELSON: Correct. 7 MS. DANNENBRING: Okay. You you 8 mentioned about the casing also serving as a 9 protective barrier, at least as a secondary reason 10 for the casing, and the casing is made from 11 cement. 12 Now, I don't I don't want to be 13 disrespectful. But he asked the audience a 14 question, so may I please ask the audience a 15 question? It's relevant. 16 MS. RUDOLPH: We'll decide that with your 17 testimony. That's giving testimony. We'll decide 18 that when you give testimony, but I don't know at 19 this point. 20 MS. DANNENBRING: It is relevant, I 21 think. 22 If those of you in the audience would 23 raise your hand Page 115 1 MS. RUDOLPH: No. No. I'm saying I'm 2 saying you might be able to ask the audience a 3 question when you're giving testimony, as he was 4 doing, but not now. 5 MS. DANNENBRING: Okay. 6 All right. And then the other question I 7 have is, you mentioned that you are a consultant 8 for a number of things. Have you ever worked as a 9 paid consultant for an oil and gas industry? 10 DR. NELSON: Yes. 11 MS. DANNENBRING: Thank you. 12 Could you please describe that for us? 13 DR. NELSON: I was hired, along with two 14 other geologists, to review water well logs in 15 Wayne and White County, looking for dried and 16 abandoned wells that had shows of oil and a high 17 enough return on their down or signature on 18 their down-hole geophysics to warrant a re-entry 19 into the well. 20 MS. DANNENBRING: Okay. And who asked 21 you to come and give testimony tonight? 22 DR. NELSON: The... 23 MS. RUDOLPH: The Board did. Page 116 1 DR. NELSON: The Board did. 2 MS. DANNENBRING: The Board did? 3 DR. NELSON: Yes. 4 MS. DANNENBRING: And are you paid for 5 this testimony? 6 DR. NELSON: No. 7 MS. DANNENBRING: Thank you. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 9 Anyone else who would like to question 10 this witness? 11 You had your hand up before, and I didn't 12 know what that meant. So what are you telling me? 13 Do you want to ask questions? 14 MS. HEYL: Yes. 15 MS. RUDOLPH: Go for it. 16 MS. HEYL: Is this on? No. 17 Barbara Heyl, H-E-Y-L. 18 You talked about the origin of the radon 19 in our showers. That's what I would like you to 20 talk about. You talked about how much was in our 21 showers. 22 What is the origin of that radon? We 23 know that uranium breaks down to radium. We've Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (29) Pages 113 - 116 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 117 1 talked a little bit about that. And the radium 2 breaks down to radon. 3 DR. NELSON: Yes. 4 MS. HEYL: So any ideas of where the 5 source is from the radon in our showers? 6 DR. NELSON: I have to clarify that. You 7 live in Bloomington, correct? 8 MS. HEYL: I do. 9 DR. NELSON: Okay. You do not have radon 10 in your shower because the water supply system 11 is 12 MS. HEYL: From the reservoir. 13 DR. NELSON: from the reservoir. 14 MS. HEYL: Yes. 15 DR. NELSON: Those in Normal, which get 16 theirs from it, also have some. I know that I 17 have a lot because the water comes directly from 18 my well through the pressure tank. 19 And in 1996, my house was used as an EPA 20 protocol test house, where we tested the radon on 21 a year-long test, versus the standard short-time 22 test. And so I know that my shower on my second 23 floor has a lot more radon than my basement. Page 118 1 MS. HEYL: Okay. Well, let's move to the 2 basement, since it turns out, across McLean 3 County, we have unusually high levels of radon in 4 our homes. There's charts that have that. 5 So I'm interested in what you feel the 6 source of the radon is in McLean County. 7 DR. NELSON: Okay. The source of the 8 radon in McLean County is ground up granite 9 materials that the glacier brought here. It's in 10 your soils. 11 MS. HEYL: Okay. And you say you have 12 it you have radon that's in your tanks. Do you 13 worry about any scale in your tanks? 14 DR. NELSON: No, not radon. 15 MS. HEYL: Not radon. Okay. Radium? 16 DR. NELSON: I'm not worried about radon. 17 It's scale. 18 MS. HEYL: It's scale? 19 DR. NELSON: Yes. 20 MS. HEYL: Do you have any scale? 21 DR. NELSON: I have no idea. I've never 22 looked in my pipes. 23 MS. HEYL: There are, of course, worries Page 119 1 about oil and gas industry equipment, the pipes 2 ending up in playgrounds in Texas and children 3 playing on radioactive pipes. You might want to 4 check your tank where your water is coming from. 5 So the uranium is in the ground left from 6 the glacier? 7 DR. NELSON: Yes. 8 MS. HEYL: And is breaking down into 9 radium, and we don't know where that all goes. 10 And then into the radon. And we know there's 11 carcinogenic effects of radon. 12 My interest here is, if we have multiple 13 sources, some of it very deep and some of it more 14 shallow, shouldn't we be testing for scale and 15 other indications, like our levels of radon here 16 in McLean County? 17 And certainly any new enterprise, we 18 should have testing for waste any waste product 19 that's going to be spread on the ground or that 20 we're going to breathe. We should know whether 21 there's radioactivity in there, right, do you 22 think? 23 DR. NELSON: I don't I don't think Page 120 1 it's practical. 2 MS. HEYL: It may not be practical, but 3 maybe our health depends on it. And that's one of 4 the criteria for me for the special use permit, is 5 that it's not going to activity that we bring 6 in is not going to add danger to our public health 7 or safety. 8 Does that make any sense? 9 DR. NELSON: No. 10 MS. HEYL: No? 11 DR. NELSON: I know what you're saying, 12 but I can't see how it affects what we're talking 13 about. 14 MS. HEYL: I guess it's premised on the 15 cancer load that we're already carrying. 16 MS. RUDOLPH: This is verging on 17 argument. 18 MS. HEYL: Okay. All right. I'll stop 19 then. Thank you. 20 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 21 No, I'm sorry. I nodded at her first. I 22 meant you're next. I meant you're next. I don't 23 know if you heard me. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (30) Pages 117 - 120 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 121 1 MS. KEYLIN: Hi. My name is Margaret 2 Keylin from Downs, Illinois. Margaret, 3 K-E-Y-L-I-N. 4 Doctor, you mentioned that methane is 5 just a part of our underground system. I 6 wondered and I'm not sure if you have the 7 expertise, but wouldn't methane be released if 8 there happened to be a burn-off as gas is escaping 9 from below, in your opinion? 10 DR. NELSON: What are you speaking about? 11 MS. KEYLIN: The oil company was saying 12 that they would probably have to flare off 13 DR. NELSON: That is correct 14 MS. KEYLIN: escaping gasses. 15 DR. NELSON: if there's a high enough 16 concentration. 17 MS. KEYLIN: Methane could possibly be 18 DR. NELSON: Yes. 19 MS. KEYLIN: one of those gasses? 20 If the if there would possibly be an 21 oil leak from some source in the top 100 to 500 22 feet of the drill hole, would it possibly 23 contaminate surrounding wells? Page 122 1 DR. NELSON: None of the water wells in 2 the area of a proposed well extends to depths 3 deeper than 125 feet. 4 MS. KEYLIN: I'm saying in the top 100 to 5 500, from 500 anywhere on up to the surface, if 6 there was a well leak, oil leak, would it possibly 7 contaminate any drinking water wells? 8 DR. NELSON: I don't think so, but 9 MS. KEYLIN: Okay. If an underground 10 water source, like one of the local aquifers or 11 any of the sources that might be in this area, 12 were contaminated by oil, a leak, a spill, 13 something, could it be restored a hundred percent? 14 DR. NELSON: No. 15 MS. KEYLIN: If radon isn't a real 16 problem, what would be any other possible 17 radioactive problems that might occur from this 18 drilling? Would there be any? 19 DR. NELSON: I can't visualize any. 20 MS. KEYLIN: Okay. You mentioned 21 previous wells that were dug in this section, two 22 of them. Was oil ever pumped from those wells? 23 DR. NELSON: No, they were dry and Page 123 1 abandoned. The cores did not indicate enough oil 2 to make a well. 3 MS. KEYLIN: The clay bentonite clay 4 that is made more liquid by adding chemicals, and 5 I had asked a question about those chemicals 6 before. And they weren't real sure what all 7 chemicals were used, but there was a caustic one 8 in there. And there's also the use of muriatic 9 acid at one point in the process of drilling. 10 Are any of those possible contaminants 11 for ground water if they would? These I'm 12 sorry. 13 DR. NELSON: Let's start with muriatic 14 acid. It's used in the stimulation. And, in 15 essence, muriatic acid is very similar to your 16 stomach acid, and the dolomites they are looking 17 at is very similar to Tums. 18 So there's a chemical reaction. It 19 breaks down and releases carbon dioxide gas and 20 neutralizes the acid. 21 MS. KEYLIN: So all of the acid would be 22 neutralized then, there's absolutely no 23 DR. NELSON: Yes. Page 124 1 MS. KEYLIN: What about there are 2 other chemicals. Some of them are caustic. Any 3 other caustic chemicals? Maybe we don't know the 4 names of them. 5 DR. NELSON: And I'm not familiar with 6 them. 7 MS. KEYLIN: Okay. But it's possible, 8 with rain coming down on chemical soil, that some 9 of those chemicals will eventually seep deeper 10 down and possibly down into the groundwater level? 11 DR. NELSON: It depends on how reactive 12 they are to the clays. The clay may bind them and 13 hold them in place. 14 MS. KEYLIN: Okay. And would the clay be 15 able to take quite a bit of that? There are 13 16 wells there, and all this earth and clay and 17 slurry coming back up and being... 18 DR. NELSON: It depends on the 19 concentrations. 20 MS. KEYLIN: Okay. A part of this 21 process during part of it, holes are blasted 22 into the rock, tiny holes. 23 Would that compromise the integrity of Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (31) Pages 121 - 124 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 125 1 the ground to the point that any leaked oil, if 2 there was such a thing, could more quickly 3 contaminate groundwater? I mean, would it affect 4 that? 5 DR. NELSON: The precision explosive is 6 right at the producing horizon, and it's usually a 7 very small interval, like five feet. 8 MS. KEYLIN: That's the only part would 9 be 10 DR. NELSON: That's the only part. 11 MS. KEYLIN: Would it at all affect an 12 increase in the flow of any liquids into possible 13 contamination of groundwater? 14 DR. NELSON: No. 15 MS. KEYLIN: You mentioned there are 16 hundreds of wells drilled into and through the 17 Mahomet Aquifer. Those are all water wells, 18 right? 19 DR. NELSON: No. 20 MS. KEYLIN: What kind of wells are 21 those? 22 DR. NELSON: There's several exploratory 23 wells that have been drilled. Page 126 1 MS. KEYLIN: Oil wells? 2 DR. NELSON: Oil wells. 3 MS. KEYLIN: Any others, or just those 4 two things? 5 DR. NELSON: There have been engineering 6 borings. 7 MS. KEYLIN: What would that be? 8 DR. NELSON: Drilling tests to decide if 9 a building is going to be supported, bridge 10 borings. 11 MS. KEYLIN: Okay. Do you have any idea, 12 if there are those little local aquifers in 13 between the well and the Mahomet Aquifer, how deep 14 they may be? 15 DR. NELSON: They're shallow. 16 MS. KEYLIN: Which means about what? 17 DR. NELSON: Typically at depths of like 18 40 feet. 19 MS. KEYLIN: Okay. So drilling down near 20 them or through them is possible. We know where 21 they are to avoid them, but if not, they're in 22 that are they in this glacial and stream 23 sediment? Page 127 1 DR. NELSON: Yes. They're thin. 2 MS. KEYLIN: And so there is more 3 possibility of flowing again, the hydraulics, 4 but the possible flowing of liquid through that is 5 possible? 6 DR. NELSON: Yes, assuming that there's a 7 leak. 8 MS. KEYLIN: Yes. 9 And is it is it possible that some of 10 those shallow aquifers are near this well site 11 these well sites? Is that a possibility? 12 DR. NELSON: Based on the drilling logs 13 of nearby wells, no. 14 MS. KEYLIN: All right. Thank you. 15 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 16 I think you had your hand up. 17 MS. FOX: Tracy Fox, T-R-A-C-Y, F-O-X, 18 15215 North Ivy Lake Road, Chillicothe, Illinois. 19 That's in Peoria County. 20 I'm here tonight listening to your 21 presentation. And I was wondering if you would be 22 willing to flip back to the first slide where you 23 showed the overview map of the Mahomet Aquifer. I Page 128 1 had a question about that. 2 Okay. Maybe the next one that zoomed in 3 a little more. I'm sorry. I didn't remember 4 which one I was looking for. 5 Okay. I'm familiar with the work of the 6 Mahomet Aquifer Coalition, and I followed closely 7 some of the things that have come out regarding 8 the Mahomet Aquifer. And I was very curious, 9 because this map does not resemble the shape of 10 the map that I'm used to seeing. 11 And so I got to poking around on my 12 phone, and I noticed that the Illinois State Water 13 Survey shows a pretty different configuration than 14 what's here. Have you seen that one? 15 DR. NELSON: I have not used the water 16 survey. I used the geologic survey. 17 MS. FOX: So is there a rivalry between 18 the water survey and the geologic survey? 19 DR. NELSON: Not really. They did the 20 cooperative reports on the Mahomet Aquifer. 21 MS. FOX: Okay. And because, to me, 22 it would seem logical that if water was a concern, 23 that we might look at the water survey map. Is Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (32) Pages 125 - 128 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 129 1 there a reason why you chose not to check that 2 out? 3 DR. NELSON: Because I'm very familiar 4 with use of the geologic survey materials. 5 MS. FOX: Okay. And you testified 6 earlier that you are a geologist who has worked 7 with oil and gas concerns. I'm wondering if, as a 8 scientist, you believe in anthropogenic climate 9 change. 10 DR. NELSON: Yes. 11 MS. FOX: Do you believe that continued 12 oil and gas extraction might aggravate climate 13 change? Do you believe it would increase CO2 in 14 the atmosphere? Do you believe it would increase 15 methane in the atmosphere? 16 DR. NELSON: Okay. Now, those are two 17 very important atmospheric gasses 18 MS. FOX: They are. 19 DR. NELSON: and what we call the 20 climate change gasses, the greenhouse 21 MS. FOX: Right. And I understand those. 22 And we can I mean, if you want to elucidate on 23 the, you know, higher potential for warming of one Page 130 1 over the other, feel free. 2 DR. NELSON: Well, I do believe in 3 anthropogenic climate change. We have caused 4 it. 5 MS. FOX: Okay. But you aren't you 6 don't see a link between oil and gas extraction in 7 that? 8 DR. NELSON: I see a link between the use 9 of oil and gas. 10 MS. FOX: Okay. All right. Well, and 11 I'm not really an expert in how the methane comes 12 out relative to the oil, and I know that in some 13 places, the mix is different. 14 But another thing that I am interested in 15 and I want to explore just a little bit further 16 has to do with some of the other stuff that comes 17 up. And I want to revisit the uranium, radium, 18 radon spectrum and what's going on with that. 19 Now, you characterized the risk as being 20 pretty minimal compared to taking of radon as 21 compared to taking a shower or having a granite 22 countertop. 23 DR. NELSON: Yes. Page 131 1 MS. FOX: Do you think that the USEPA 2 would be a good source of information on the 3 relative risk of those things? 4 DR. NELSON: They have a number of 5 publications on various radiation hazards and 6 risks. 7 MS. FOX: Okay. Well, I like granite 8 countertops. I think they look great, but I'm 9 really concerned about health stuff. So I have 10 looked into this. 11 And, you know, USEPA dispels that myth 12 pretty conclusively on their site, so I won't 13 belabor that point. 14 But I in exploring that continuum 15 more, I'm still trying to understand how, if 16 McLean County has such high rates of radon and 17 radon is a breakdown of radium, how it is that you 18 think that there wouldn't be any radium exposure 19 happening when you're drilling down into this 20 bedrock. 21 DR. NELSON: Okay. The the granitic 22 material that makes up our glacial and stream 23 materials comes from a terrain in Canada where Page 132 1 there actually are uranium mines. 2 And I'm going to use the technical term 3 granite, a rock that's composed of quartz, 4 potassium, feldspar, and a few other things. 5 Typically, the uranium is tied up in a small 6 mineral called zircon, and this then is embedded 7 in in the granite. If a few cases, I have seen 8 true uranium in granite. 9 But the glacier grinds this down to a 10 powder, and it's mixed in with other types of 11 materials to make our fertile soils that we have 12 here. 13 So our soils that are in our glacial 14 materials have a much higher uranium content than 15 the typical limestones and sandstones and 16 dolomites that we would have in the county. 17 MS. FOX: Okay. So you contend that all 18 of the radioactive elements are at the surface? 19 DR. NELSON: That come into your house, 20 yes. 21 MS. FOX: Okay. And they're unrelated to 22 anything that would be exposed during this oil 23 drilling? Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (33) Pages 129 - 132 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 133 1 DR. NELSON: Yes. 2 MS. FOX: Okay. All right. Well, 3 hopefully someone will testify, and we can hash 4 that all out. Thanks. 5 MS. RUDOLPH: First him and then you. 6 MR. BROWN: Name and address again? 7 MR. KNAPP: Please. 8 MR. BROWN: My name is Gregg Brown, 9 G-R-E-G-G, Brown, like the color, and 303 East 10 Locust, Unit 2, in Bloomington. 11 This is about the concrete casing that 12 surrounds. It's my understanding that there's a 13 certain percentage of that concrete, it's like 14 sidewalks crack, that are damaged or that fail 15 immediately, and that more and more of that fails 16 over time. Is that a concern? 17 DR. NELSON: I think all concrete 18 sidewalks will fail. And I think that what you're 19 getting at the well is not your concrete that you 20 get at your at your sidewalk. It's concrete 21 that's been brought in. It's not trucked in by 22 your your typical cement mixer. It's a 23 formulated cement for oil well use. Page 134 1 It also doesn't undergo the thermal 2 expansion and contraction that you typically would 3 experience with a sidewalk. So it's the 4 likelihood of a concrete or a I should say a 5 cement job failing is much lower than it would be 6 for your concrete walkway or driveway. 7 MR. BROWN: Okay. Thank you. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 9 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Ron Wojtanowski, 10 W-O-J-T-A-N-O-W-S-K-I, Danvers, Illinois. 11 I just have a couple of follow-up 12 questions about the conductivity of the soil. Is 13 that what you're you know, the porousness of 14 the soil and stuff. 15 And a couple people asked questions about 16 the break in the well casing, a shallow break in 17 the well casing. And I was wondering, where does 18 that material go if it doesn't travel through the 19 soil? You said we had a low conductivity. 20 So if we had a break that was, say, a 21 hundred feet down or something like that, if we 22 had a leak, where would that go? 23 DR. NELSON: Probably a few feet to tens Page 135 1 of feet. 2 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: We're talking about a 3 lot of material. It would only go a few feet? 4 DR. NELSON: Because the hydraulic 5 conductivity is low. 6 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Is low. 7 So, hypothetically, if we had that kind 8 of a leak, how long do you think it would take for 9 it to go 500 feet, let's say? Just a ballpark. 10 DR. NELSON: Multiple well, let's see. 11 Decades. 12 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Decades? 13 DR. NELSON: Yes. 14 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Okay. Because some of 15 you referred to observation wells. 16 DR. NELSON: Yes. 17 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: The neighbors' water 18 wells would suffice as observation wells, wouldn't 19 they? 20 DR. NELSON: Yes. 21 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Yes. And I assume they 22 will be living there for decades. People will be 23 living in the area for decades and stuff. Page 136 1 DR. NELSON: Yes. 2 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: So another thing is, 3 you didn't mention where the water wells are for 4 the town of Downs. Do you know where they're 5 located? 6 DR. NELSON: I didn't look that up. 7 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Okay. I just 8 wondered I think they have three wells. I just 9 wondered if their wells were anywhere close to 10 that oil field. 11 DR. NELSON: Okay. I have a screen shot 12 in here which shows the a number of wells in 13 the Downs area, and that looks to be, oh, two 14 miles. 15 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Two miles? 16 Okay. One well or multiple wells? 17 DR. NELSON: They're multiple wells. So 18 I don't know which ones are the Downs wells and 19 which are local residents' wells. 20 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Oh, okay. Okay. Thank 21 you. 22 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 23 I don't see any further hands. From our Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (34) Pages 133 - 136 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 137 1 list of okay. Let me talk about where we are 2 here. 3 We can now proceed to number 4, which 4 would be objectors'/interested parties' case in 5 chief. 6 I did neglect something earlier, 7 Mr. Wetzel. I neglected to ask you if you had any 8 redirect after the questions we had. 9 MR. WETZEL: Of this witness? 10 MS. RUDOLPH: No, of anybody. 11 MR. WETZEL: Well, I don't know what I'm 12 going to hear from the objectors and what their 13 testimony will be. But I will have I do have a 14 drawing, and I have some more testimony to 15 present, primarily addressing the Mahomet Aquifer. 16 MR. KNAPP: In rebuttal? 17 MR. WETZEL: Yes. 18 MR. KNAPP: In redirect of your two 19 MR. WETZEL: No. 20 MS. RUDOLPH: I didn't think so. Thank 21 you. 22 Okay. What I want to ask now is, on the 23 people that have signed up to testify, is there Page 138 1 anyone that can't be here tomorrow night? 2 I see a hand. I can't see your face. 3 Okay. Yes, would you come forward, 4 please. 5 MR. KNAPP: Is there anybody who hasn't 6 signed up on the list who would like to give 7 testimony? 8 MS. RUDOLPH: Now I will be swearing you 9 in, unless you would rather affirm. I want to 10 make that clear, that it can be either one. 11 MS. BECHTEL: I'll swear. That's fine. 12 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. 13 (Ms. Bechtel was sworn.) 14 MR. KNAPP: Before you start, Sally, I 15 want to be clear we need to be clear. If you 16 want to give a closing statement, you need to sign 17 up to give testimony as well. Fair enough? 18 MS. RUDOLPH: I'm glad you mentioned 19 that. 20 In addition to asking you to state your 21 name and address and spell your name, I'll also be 22 asking, if anyone giving testimony lives near the 23 property in question, if they would let us know Page 139 1 their proximity. 2 So you may proceed. 3 MS. BECHTEL: Okay. My name is Mary 4 Bechtel, M-A-R-Y, B-E-C-H-T-E-L. I represent 5 Illinois People 6 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. Address, please. 7 MS. BECHTEL: Oh, I'm sorry. I was 8 going to that was going to be my next sentence. 9 My address is 1720 R.T. Dunn, Number 1, 10 Bloomington. 11 MS. RUDOLPH: And, if any, do you have 12 proximity to this? 13 MS. BECHTEL: No. 14 I represent Illinois People's Action from 15 a member church, Holy Trinity Catholic Church. I 16 serve at Holy Trinity as the Director of Religious 17 Education. 18 I come here tonight as a person of faith. 19 I realize that my faith tradition is not the same 20 as that of everyone in this room, but what I would 21 like to say is important to me and to all 22 residents of McLean County. 23 I am here to urge you not to give a Page 140 1 special use permit to Minard Run for drilling oil. 2 My faith teaches me two things that have 3 formed and informed my perspective on this issue. 4 Number one: God created each and every 5 person in His own image out of love. That makes 6 us all sisters and brothers intimately connected 7 to one another, which indeed makes me and all of 8 us our sister and brothers' keeper. When one 9 person is hurt or suffers, it hurts each and every 10 one of us. 11 We have a notion in my faith tradition 12 that illustrates this very well. It is called the 13 common good. And I quote from a document of 14 Vatican Council II. 15 The common good, quote, "is the sum total 16 of social conditions which allow people, either as 17 groups or as individuals, to reach their 18 fulfillment more fully and more easily. Everybody 19 should look upon his or her neighbor, without 20 exception, as another self, bearing in mind 21 especially their neighbor's life and the means 22 needed for a dignified way of life," closed quote. 23 In other words, we do no harm to others, Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (35) Pages 137 - 140 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 141 1 but rather do all we can to ensure that each and 2 every person has all she or he needs to live a 3 life of dignity. This quite clearly includes such 4 things as clean air, clean water, and good health. 5 These life qualities are not only some are not 6 only for some, but for each and every person. 7 When I see harm or potential harm about 8 to be inflicted on one of my fellow human beings, 9 I have the responsibility to speak out and do 10 whatever I can to prevent that harm from 11 happening. 12 Permitting Minard Run to drill for oil in 13 our community is one such instance. Speaking out 14 against and trying to prevent harm to others is 15 something that I am called to do. 16 We are well aware of the potential for 17 poisoning our air and water with such drilling. 18 Especially concerning is the notion that there is 19 little or no protocol or planning for dealing 20 with, let's say, a breach of our aquifer. 21 Clearly, in recent days, with other 22 issues, we are experiencing the consequences of 23 the lack of protocol in advanced planning. We Page 142 1 cannot make this up as we go along. 2 No amount of so-called safeguards, 3 regulations, and the like will prevent an 4 accident. No human life is worth the risk, not 5 one. Not a single one. Just think, it could be 6 you or someone you love. 7 My faith also informs me that people come 8 before profits. And I don't mean the biblical 9 kind of profit, but the dollar sign kind. We, the 10 people of McLean County, will not let ourselves be 11 used as a means to increase the dollar signs in 12 the pockets of wealthy corporations. We are not 13 objects, but human beings, and we demand to be 14 treated as such. 15 Again, from Vatican II, quote, "The 16 ultimate and basic purpose of economic production 17 does not consist merely in producing more goods, 18 nor in profit or prestige. Economic production is 19 meant to be at the service of humanity in its 20 totality." 21 Number two: Our precious earth is a gift 22 from God to us, his children. As with all things, 23 we are its stewards. God gave us our beautiful Page 143 1 earth as our home, not to poison, defile and 2 destroy, but to provide for our needs, to help us 3 to live in harmony with it and with each other. 4 Why in the name of common sense would we 5 want to poison our home to destroy the very place 6 we live and breathe? 7 Climate change is very real, whether we 8 want to accept that fact or not. Denying the 9 truth does not change the truth. We are the 10 cause. We can be the solution if we have the will 11 and the courage to do so. 12 The use and consequent ever-increasing 13 demand for fossil fuels is literally killing us 14 and our planet. The faith community recognizes 15 this, and over 70 religious organizations 16 worldwide have pledged to go fossil free. 17 Here in McLean County, we have some of 18 the most beautiful and richest farmland in the 19 country. We as a community know how important 20 this land is, not only to ourselves, but to the 21 world at large as an important food producer. 22 We here in McLean County value each 23 other, value our land, and value our life as Page 144 1 community in harmony with each other and with our 2 little piece of the earth. We are not about to 3 invite the destruction of the very quality of life 4 we have worked so hard to build and maintain. 5 As our U.S. Catholic bishops have stated 6 so clearly, quote, "Business and finance have the 7 duty to be faithful trustees of the resources at 8 their disposal. No one can ever own capital 9 resources absolutely or control their use without 10 regard for others and society as a whole. This 11 applies, first of all, to land and natural 12 resources. Short-term profits reaped at the cost 13 of depletion of natural resources or the pollution 14 of the environment violate this trust," closed 15 quote. 16 We here in McLean County are an 17 intelligent and a caring people. We can see 18 through manipulation and recognize when we are 19 being used as pawns in a game where we are clearly 20 the losers. 21 We know that our efforts should be 22 focused on renewable energy resources. Let us be 23 leaders, not followers. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (36) Pages 141 - 144 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Page 145 1 The standards for issuance of special use 2 permits clearly states in number 1, quote, "The 3 proposed special use permit will not be 4 detrimental to or endanger the health, safety, 5 morals, comfort or welfare of the public," closed 6 quote. 7 So we say, no harm to our people, no harm 8 to our land, no harm to our quality of life, and 9 our voice will be heard. 10 We urge the County Board to deny a 11 special use permit for drilling to Minard Run. 12 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 13 (Applause.) 14 MS. RUDOLPH: We don't allow any 15 clapping. Okay? That's it. 16 Questions from members of the Board? 17 Questions from staff? 18 Does the applicant have any questions for 19 this witness? 20 MR. WETZEL: No, we do not. 21 MS. RUDOLPH: Do any interested parties 22 or objectors have questions for this witness? 23 Okay. Thank you, Ms. Bechtel. Page 146 1 MS. BECHTEL: Thank you. 2 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. We need to talk 3 about our road map again. 4 And I believe that we have agreed that we 5 will meet tomorrow night. I believe we have 14 6 people signed up to give testimony. So I think 7 it's very likely we will also be here on Thursday 8 night. 9 I want to remind you that, in preparing 10 your testimony, that we are timing, and 10 minutes 11 will be the maximum unless you can qualify as an 12 expert witness. And expert witnesses are 13 allowed after saying their credentials, are 14 allowed to testify for 30 minutes. 15 But in each case, each person that 16 testifies is subject to cross-examination. 17 Ms. Bechtel didn't have any, but some may. So I 18 wanted to let you know. 19 One more thing. I wonder, Mr. Wetzel, if 20 we could have a list of the chemicals used that 21 was brought up tonight, the chemicals used in the 22 process, if that could be brought in. 23 Does anyone have any questions of a Page 147 1 procedural nature? 2 FROM THE AUDIENCE: Yes. 3 MS. RUDOLPH: Yes? 4 FROM THE AUDIENCE: Will we meet here at 5 7 o'clock tomorrow night? 6 MS. RUDOLPH: I'm sorry? 7 MR. KNAPP: Meeting here at 7:00. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. I'm going announce 9 that. Yes, we will we will continue this case 10 until tomorrow night, which is October 22nd, at 11 7 o'clock in this in this room. And we are 12 continued until then. 13 Thank you. 14 (The proceedings concluded at 9:59 p.m.) 15 --o0o-- 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Page 148 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) 2 COUNTY OF McLEAN ) 3 The undersigned Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter, a court reporter in and for the State of 5 Illinois, does hereby certify; 6 That said proceedings were taken at the 7 time and place therein stated; that the 8 proceedings were reported by me, ALISON L. 9 STRUBBERG, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and 10 disinterested person, and was thereafter 11 transcribed into typewriting; 12 And I further certify that I am not of 13 counsel or attorney for either or any of the 14 parties to said proceedings, nor in any way 15 interested in the outcome of the cause named in 16 said caption. 17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunder 18 subscribed my hand on November 4, 2014. 19 20 21 ALISON L. STRUBBERG, CSR CSR No. 084.004655 22 23 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (37) Pages 145 - 148 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 [ [sic] 21:20 A abandoned 80:1;115:16;123:1 able (11) 23:23;24:1;64:2; 88:17,20;103:13; 105:18;109:3;111:20; 115:2;124:15 above 76:15,17;78:8;79:16; 100:4;104:23;111:3 absolutely 123:22;144:9 abstract 108:5 Academy 108:3 accept 143:8 accesses 61:23 accident 108:17;142:4 accidents 10:1,13 accumulation 101:9 accurate 18:18;47:12;81:7 acid 123:9,14,15,16,20,21 acknowledged 9:15 acres 73:20 across 34:13;105:23;107:3; 118:2 Act 53:5,6,11,20;54:5; 57:17;101:11 Action 139:14 actions 36:21 activities 54:10,12;89:18 activity 90:3;94:6;120:5 actual 54:9;108:8 actually (17) 13:7;25:20;30:4; 33:17;51:2;54:20; 58:22;73:14;75:18; 76:20;77:14;87:2; 95:17,18;107:12; 112:9;132:1 ad 54:20 add 48:21;54:23;120:6 adding 123:4 addition 48:15;138:20 additional 6:1;34:11;46:7 additives 28:7,9 address (16) 6:13;16:15;23:10; 33:15;39:9;45:4;58:10; 71:21;72:13;99:11; 104:10;109:22;133:6; 138:21;139:6,9 addressing 43:14;45:8;58:8; 137:15 adjacent 34:17,21;110:20 admit 12:1 advanced 141:23 adversely 50:15 affect 25:22;26:9;125:3,11 affected 50:15 affects 13:10;120:12 affiliate 73:11 affirm 138:9 affluent 21:20;22:6,10 Again (20) 5:6;6:13;35:18; 37:18;59:9;60:4,11; 66:1;76:11;79:14,19, 23;84:11;99:11; 101:21;111:7;127:3; 133:6;142:15;146:3 against 141:14 age 12:20 agencies 39:17 aggravate 129:12 ago 10:23;73:7;93:10; 108:4 agree 24:14,19,20 agreed 10:16;146:4 agreeing 105:6 agreement 36:4;41:6 ahead 6:20;13:2;37:20 aid 93:11 air (16) 23:21;24:16;40:23; 41:1,10,19,21,23; 42:10,15,17,20;66:20; 67:19;141:4,17 Albany 100:8,14 alive 67:2 Allerton 106:13 allow 4:10;5:15,23;60:22; 71:20;77:9;140:16; 145:14 allowed 13:23;19:5;84:7,10; 101:18;146:13,14 almost 11:21;103:2 along 9:23;108:19;115:13; 142:1 always 61:11 American 100:1 among 21:11 amount 13:11;29:16;48:8; 142:2 amounts 29:2;55:20;90:17 analysis 10:10,16,21;63:11; 64:2,5 Angelo 104:9 A-N-G-E-L-O 104:9 animals 24:7;91:22 annotated 75:15 announce 147:8 annually 48:5 answered 9:14;19:23;23:2; 32:18;34:2;69:12; 86:13 anthropogenic 129:8;130:3 apologize 78:19;95:11 app 54:15 Apparently 21:21 Appeals 3:5 appear 63:13;109:11 Applause 145:13 applicant 16:14;20:5;72:2; 84:19;92:18;94:14; 98:6;145:18 application 11:2;14:9,23;54:16 applies 5:7;144:11 apply 97:18;98:1 appreciate 82:20 appropriate 107:8 Approximately 58:17,19,21;94:20; 95:4 Aquifer (61) 25:20,22;26:1,7,9, 16;71:18;73:7,18,19, 23;74:3,12,13,15; 75:16;76:7,12,17; 77:18,20;79:7,11,16; 81:5,10,14,17,19,21; 92:5,9,11,14;94:16; 95:5,17,18;96:2,5; 104:16,22,23;105:6,13, 14;106:9,13,22;107:5; 109:5,15;112:2; 125:17;126:13;127:23; 128:6,8,20;137:15; 141:20 aquifers (15) 76:18;79:2;89:3; 105:23;106:3,5,8,21; 107:4;108:23;112:4, 13;122:10;126:12; 127:10 Arch 7:15,18,20;8:3 area (26) 7:1;34:16;35:11,21; 36:8;42:19;45:12,18; 50:12;62:4;63:22; 78:22;79:7,21;82:18; 87:17;90:2;94:7;95:9; 100:10;106:23;109:10; 122:2,11;135:23; 136:13 areas 45:21;85:1;89:9; 110:5 argue 38:23 argument 120:17 around (10) 24:9;41:19,21;64:22; 69:3;80:6;84:4;94:10; 106:13;128:11 Arsenal 89:15 assessment 10:10 assist 93:11 Assistant 5:10 assume 7:1,7;57:8;83:2; 96:9;135:21 assuming 50:5;127:6 assure 42:18 atmosphere 64:17,20;65:10; 129:14,15 atmospheric 129:17 atomic 75:23 attach 91:8 attached 33:18 attempts 79:20 attendance 16:12 attitude 69:5 Attorney 5:11;47:4,5 audience (10) 83:6,23;84:6,15; 114:13,14,22;115:2; 147:2,4 available 27:6;73:9;107:15; 108:6 Avenue 20:12;23:12;104:11; 113:6 average 7:11 averaged 11:11 avoid 65:13;66:2;126:21 aware (11) 11:19;17:10;58:6; Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] [sic] - aware ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 61:7,11;81:23;96:15, 17,19;97:4;141:16 away 32:21;36:11;59:3,9, 13;81:18;92:8;94:20; 95:4 B back (19) 5:19;6:1;33:7,8;34:6, 10;39:5;55:6;60:18,18; 72:5;76:1,4;88:4; 100:2;104:15;106:11; 124:17;127:22 background 37:5,21;60:6;90:14 backyard 38:22;76:21 bad 33:4 ballpark 135:9 Bangert 3:15,16 Barbara 51:9;116:17 barrel 48:7,10,11 barrels (12) 7:2,16;8:7,8,17,22; 9:5;11:3,14;47:18; 48:4,6 barrier 114:9 base 75:16;107:20 based 12:5;54:21;76:9; 95:2;107:1;112:13; 127:12 basement 83:9,14;117:23; 118:2 basic 142:16 basically 86:1;101:18;112:15 basin 11:18;89:17 basing 40:21 basis 12:8;24:1;35:13 batch 111:21 battery 40:19 Bear 53:3 bearing 140:20 beautiful 142:23;143:18 BECHTEL 138:11,13;139:3,4,7, 13;145:23;146:1,17 B-E-C-H-T-E-L 139:4 become 10:21,21;62:2 becomes 35:4,22 bedrock 76:13;78:8;79:15; 104:16,21;108:13,19; 111:3;131:20 began 4:14 begin 5:9;69:6;98:12,22 begins 35:11 Behary 15:15 behind 33:10 beings 141:8;142:13 belabor 131:13 belief 94:19 belligerent-type 99:6 below 46:9,14;76:13;92:10; 104:21;121:9 bentonite 123:3 benzene 42:20 best 33:13;90:5 beyond 90:14 biblical 142:8 big 80:21 bigger 78:20;86:18 Bill 6:3;53:9;99:14 bind 124:12 biogenic 77:3 bishops 144:5 bit (13) 5:11;12:18;20:20; 29:3;74:9;77:22;78:8; 91:1;94:16;106:11; 117:1;124:15;130:15 black 91:12 blasted 124:21 blend 60:18 BLOOMINGTON (13) 3:1;6:15;16:17; 39:12;40:8;51:10;74:7; 76:8;99:15;113:6; 117:7;133:10;139:10 Bloomington-Normal 49:18 blowout 24:21;25:7;93:2,8 blowouts 32:6;33:3 blue 79:6;81:12 Board (23) 3:5;4:9;8:13;13:15, 18;15:4;22:14,14;27:8; 38:8,16;41:6;71:15,20, 22;80:10;84:18;85:4; 115:23;116:1,2; 145:10,16 Bob 61:21;67:13 bodies 109:11 borings 126:6,10 both 24:11;72:2;75:18; 90:1;108:22 bottles 77:1 bottom 93:23;101:13 bottoms 101:4 Brad 57:22 breach 141:20 break 71:11;134:16,16,20 breakage 111:17 breakdown 131:17 breaking 119:8 breaks 116:23;117:2;123:19 breathe 119:20;143:6 breathing 41:23;42:20 Brian 3:15 bridge 126:9 brief 72:17 brighter 78:20 brine 8:8;11:3,14;12:6,8; 13:11;14:12 bring 120:5 bringing 82:23 broken 109:17 brothers 140:6 brothers' 140:8 brought 36:10;48:1;118:9; 133:21;146:21,22 Broughton 50:11 Brown (12) 39:10,10,11,14,20; 40:2,6;133:6,8,8,9; 134:7 B-R-O-W-N 39:11 build 144:4 building 126:9 bunch 50:1 burn 63:19;64:8,11;67:1 burned 66:21 burning 64:14,17 burn-off 121:8 bury 28:10,13;29:21 business 3:22;24:8;39:22; 144:6 buy 44:10 by-products 62:21;63:20;64:3 C calculations 9:16;19:16 California 49:7 call 3:6;48:11;66:8; 71:16,22,23;72:1;75:4; 129:19 called 34:4;54:20;77:3; 132:6;140:12;141:15 calling 112:20 calvary 32:16 came 71:17 cameras 42:12 can (58) 3:22;7:1,7,8,9,12; 9:9;13:23;19:13;22:18; 23:19;24:17;25:17; 26:5;27:23;30:21; 40:15;42:18;44:10,11; 47:14;51:23;52:12,22; 57:8;58:11;66:17; 69:16;73:13,14,15; 74:4,18;79:5,19;81:12; 82:7;83:4;84:6;85:8; 101:2;102:12,13; 103:15,15;104:20; 109:22,23;129:22; 133:3;137:3;138:10; 141:1,10;143:10; 144:8,17;146:11 Canada 131:23 cancer 120:15 capital 144:8 CAPPARELLA (31) 104:8,9,10,13;105:3, 9,19;106:4,7,15,18; 107:7,14,19,22;108:5, 8,11,15;109:13,21; 110:10,16,19,23; 111:10,15,22;112:8,15, 18 C-A-P-P-A-R-E-L-L-A 104:10 capture 65:17;66:6;67:7,21; 78:21 captured 75:23 capturing 68:9 carbon 123:19 carcinogenic 27:19;119:11 care 18:16;37:13 career 61:6 careful 65:7 caring 144:17 CARLSON (15) 16:16,16,20;17:19, Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] away - CARLSON ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 22;18:2,7,10,15,21; 19:7,13,18,21;20:2 Carlton 3:17,18 carpet 55:19 carries 83:12 carrying 120:15 cars 27:16 cartoon 76:6;79:4;105:17; 107:11,11 Case (19) 4:4;24:21,22;25:15; 30:9;31:7;32:2;37:11, 23;40:5;42:23;64:10; 67:3,4;71:3;75:11; 137:4;146:15;147:9 cased 78:11,12 cases 90:1;132:7 casing (21) 34:4,9;78:10;92:9, 12;108:18;109:3,17; 110:1,7,9,11;111:2,17; 112:1;114:8,10,10; 133:11;134:16,17 casings 92:4 Casper 73:1 Catholic 139:15;144:5 cause 44:20;49:10,12,19; 65:15;89:5,9;91:8; 143:10 caused 86:5;108:18;130:3 causing 94:6 caustic 123:7;124:2,3 caution 6:8;88:13 cement 34:10,13;114:11; 133:22,23;134:5 centered 49:6,15 certain 26:5;52:17;54:13,13, 14;56:9;133:13 certainly 22:20;119:17 certified 72:19 Chairman 15:18 chairperson 5:23 Chairwoman 15:19 chance 4:16;6:9 change (10) 17:12,14,18;66:4; 129:9,13,20;130:3; 143:7,9 changed 37:23 changes 85:23 characteristics 103:17 characterized 130:19 charts 118:4 check 119:4;129:1 checked 80:15,17 chemical 123:18;124:8 chemicals (18) 27:4,6,11,19;28:5,12, 16,18;63:21;91:17; 123:4,5,7;124:2,3,9; 146:20,21 chief 137:5 children 119:2;142:22 Chillicothe 127:18 chips 17:6;28:23 chloride 103:8,8 choose 58:11 chose 129:1 Chris 3:17 Church 139:15,15 circle 77:22 circumstances 5:20 cited 22:9 cities 44:13 citizen 49:2 citizen's 37:9 civil 99:7 clapping 145:15 clarify 16:21;47:14;66:18; 67:14;82:7;117:6 class 16:3;102:6;103:23 classes 96:9 Classify 66:9 clause 15:9 clay 123:3,3;124:12,14, 16 clays 91:9;124:12 clean 141:4,4 clear 4:9;5:14;68:20; 138:10,15,15 clearer 13:23 clearly 15:7;141:3,21;144:6, 19;145:2 climate 65:15;66:4;129:8,12, 20;130:3;143:7 close 59:2,7;81:17;94:17; 105:9;136:9 closed 140:22;144:14;145:5 closely 128:6 closer 66:13 closing 4:13;138:16 CO2 63:2;129:13 Coalition 128:6 code 98:16 collected 54:18 color 133:9 Colorado 89:15,21 combustion 63:1 comfort 145:5 coming (10) 6:7;7:15;32:21; 66:11,20;90:12; 108:20;119:4;124:8,17 comma 48:15 comment 31:7,10;99:1 commented 62:18 comments 31:20 commercially 9:7 Commission 73:1 common 39:8;40:18;87:10; 140:13,15;143:4 community 98:10;141:13; 143:14,19;144:1 companies 25:2,10;33:2;50:13; 68:5;72:23 company (17) 18:7;22:5,9;25:13; 26:15;36:5;47:3;62:8; 64:15;65:9,16;66:5,22; 67:6;69:23;78:2; 121:11 compared 130:20,21 comparing 51:16 complaints 96:18 complicated 76:16 composed 132:3 composition 100:14 compounds 40:23;63:7 compromise 124:23 concentrated 83:14;101:3 concentration 91:13;121:16 concentrations 124:19 concern 59:1;60:21;73:22; 74:6;87:3;101:20; 128:22;133:16 concerned 60:20;61:3;66:19; 96:21;131:9 concerning 141:18 concerns 20:21;87:5;129:7 conclude 9:22;10:11 concluded 147:14 conclusively 131:12 concrete 133:11,13,17,19,20; 134:4,6 condition 15:5 conditions 64:15;140:16 conduct 3:22 conducted 45:10 conductivities 112:7,10 conductivity 103:11;109:20; 111:8,11,14;134:12,19; 135:5 configuration 128:13 confining 112:13 confused 111:5 connected 36:20;140:6 connection 77:20;90:6;97:6 connectivity 106:8,12,20;107:3 CONNOR (14) 46:21,21;47:7,9,15; 48:3,14,20;49:2,15,23; 50:5,18;51:3 consequences 39:23;141:22 consequent 143:12 conservative 9:6;81:15 consider 19:1;22:14;46:3; 94:4,9,11 consideration 97:7 considered 12:14;19:1,4 considering 45:20 consist 142:17 consistent 94:21 constitute 3:21 constrained 107:12 consultant 47:3;70:13;72:22; 115:7,9 contact 24:23 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Carlton - contact ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 contain 21:1,10,15;28:11; 29:12 contained 93:10 contaminants 42:20;123:10 contaminate 121:23;122:7;125:3 contaminated 16:4;26:15;37:13; 59:20;60:9;70:17;88:5; 122:12 contaminating 26:6 contamination 20:22;40:3,5;70:15; 71:4;103:22;125:13 contend 132:17 content 100:19;132:14 continuation 4:4 continue 6:22;14:5;147:9 continued 129:11;147:12 Continuing 79:4 continuity 109:10 continuum 131:14 contract 71:3,6 contracted 25:12;61:22 contraction 134:2 contractual 36:3 contractually 35:10,19 control 25:3,8,10,18;49:1; 144:9 conversations 62:3,8 cooperative 128:20 copy 3:23;69:16;72:10 cores 85:12;123:1 corporate 37:7;38:3,11;70:14, 17 corporation 35:5 corporations 142:12 correctly 104:20 correlation 57:3,5,13 cost 144:12 Cottage 62:16 Council 140:14 countertop 83:18;130:22 countertops 83:16;131:8 counties 70:1,5,8;78:5 country 24:9;143:19 County (35) 3:4;13:14;18:12; 21:1,10;29:13;41:6; 45:11,21,23;46:3; 54:22;68:14;69:3;70:6, 9;73:3,18;74:2;77:15; 90:16;115:15;118:3,6, 8;119:16;127:19; 131:16;132:16;139:22; 142:10;143:17,22; 144:16;145:10 couple 88:11;92:20,22,23; 99:16;134:11,15 courage 143:11 course 39:6;118:23 courses 72:21 court 39:7;51:11;113:1 courtesy 4:20 covered 68:15 crack 133:14 created 140:4 creates 91:7 creating 69:11 credentials 72:18;146:13 Creek 31:8,10 criteria 52:17;120:4 cross 61:8 cross-examination 146:16 cross-section 77:11;107:13 crude 9:18,19 cubic 19:14;48:16,17 curious 128:8 current 66:15 currently 37:16;47:18;49:22 cut 11:15;12:19;78:10 cycles 102:17 D Dale 50:10 damage 23:20;50:16,21 damaged 62:2;133:14 danger 64:9,21;94:9,11; 120:6 dangerous 42:20 dangers 88:3 Dannenberg 5:1 Dannenbring (20) 4:17;5:1;16:12; 112:23,23;113:3,5,8, 11,15,22;114:3,7,20; 115:5,11,20;116:2,4,7 D-A-N-N-E-N-B-R-I-N-G 113:8 Danvers 26:23;74:8;134:10 dark 13:19;91:5,12; 100:15 dash 53:15 data (11) 11:8;54:14;76:9; 100:3;107:14,16,17,18, 20,22;112:9 dated 22:5;31:15 David 33:16 Dawn 112:23;113:5 day (10) 7:3,16;8:7,8,22;9:6; 11:14;48:7,10,11 days 114:5;141:21 deal 96:10 dealing 90:1;141:19 dealt 35:13 Debbie 45:3 Decades 135:11,12,22,23 decaying 21:13;77:5 decide 13:7;114:16,17; 126:8 decided 57:11 decisions 12:5;65:21 decline 48:12;75:3 declines 38:12,15 deep (11) 14:6,12,15;15:10; 46:10;77:7;89:2,5,16; 119:13;126:13 deeper 100:7;122:3;124:9 defile 143:1 define 15:11;74:20 defined 19:2 definitely 57:7;104:6 degrade 29:23 degraded 88:19,22 demand 142:13;143:13 demonstrated 106:12 demonstrations 77:2 Denver 89:17;94:7 deny 145:10 Denying 143:8 depart 83:4 Department 18:11,12;19:8,10; 62:11 departments 32:14;93:12 depend 40:17;99:9 depends 111:7;120:3;124:11, 18 depletion 144:13 deposits 77:8 depth (12) 56:20,21,23;57:1,9; 58:16,18;76:22;78:15; 80:6;85:20;94:5 depths 76:12;78:21;89:19; 92:10;122:2;126:17 describe 99:19;115:12 described 70:20;97:20 descriptions 75:13;85:12 designed 33:13 destroy 143:2,5 destruction 144:3 detail 79:22 detect 111:20 determined 56:21 detrimental 145:4 develop 14:20;15:3 developed 92:4 DeWitt 78:5;79:21 diagnostic 55:22 DICK (21) 3:7,9,11,13,15,17,19; 15:15;89:2,5,8;90:8,15, 19,23;91:15,21;92:3,7, 12,15 dictate 34:5 difference 93:13,15 different 60:12;74:14;128:13; 130:13 differentiation 56:5 dig 53:2 dignified 140:22 dignity 141:3 dioxide 123:19 direct 14:22;70:2;77:20 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] contain - direct ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 directed 7:4;62:17 directly 64:16;78:17;117:17 Director 139:16 disagree 99:3 discharging 31:9 discovered 103:3 discussed 97:9 discussion 98:18;114:1 discussions 13:16 disease 63:21 dishes 27:16 dispels 131:11 displacing 93:21 disposal 14:21;16:3;80:5; 88:1,21;144:8 disposals 104:1 disposing 80:5;87:6 disrespectful 114:13 distance 103:16,16;105:5; 112:6 distortion 105:17 DNR 19:8;97:18;98:7 Doctor 113:9;121:4 document 140:13 documentation 89:21 documented 89:14 dollar 142:9,11 dolomite 78:17 dolomites 91:10;123:16;132:16 domain 108:1 domestic 44:13 Don 16:16 done (17) 7:17;23:20;24:3,22; 35:14;45:15;49:11; 59:20;60:23;63:11; 64:4,7;83:18;85:10; 86:13;107:2,2 DORSEY (10) 43:8,8,11,20,23;44:2, 6,14,19;45:1 D-O-R-S-E-Y 43:8 dots 79:6,19,23 doubt 38:21 down (29) 5:18;48:10,13;49:6, 16;56:17;61:23;66:13; 75:23;76:7;77:23; 88:12;108:21;110:4, 12,21;111:18;115:17; 116:23;117:2;119:8; 123:19;124:8,10,10; 126:19;131:19;132:9; 134:21 down-hole 75:14;115:18 Downs 45:12;46:5;74:10; 121:2;136:4,13,18 downside 9:21 dozen 12:15 Dr (258) 4:17,18,22;6:11,14, 18,21;7:5,8,10,14,19, 23;8:4,5,9,11,18,21,21; 9:4,10,17;10:4,9,17; 11:1,13,13,23;12:3,17, 22;13:3,9,18;14:2,3,4, 11,18;15:2,9,18,21; 16:7,9;71:23;72:4,8,10, 14,16,19;73:5;80:14, 18,19;81:2,9,20;82:7, 15;83:4;84:3,13,22; 85:7,10,18,22;86:6,10, 20,23;87:9,15,18,23; 88:8,15;89:4,7,11; 90:14,18,20;91:2,19; 92:1,6,8,13,19;93:5,16, 18;94:12,14,15,22; 95:6,20,23;96:6,16,19, 23;97:5,13,21;98:3,8, 13,19;99:4,14,16,22, 23;100:6,9,11,12,13, 20,22,23;101:5,6,7,10, 14,16;102:1,2,5,6,10, 12,14,15,17,19,22,23; 103:4,5,10,13,18,19; 104:2,3,14;105:2,8,16; 106:2,6,10,17;107:1, 10,18,21;108:2,7,10, 14;109:8,19;110:8,14, 18,22;111:7,13,19; 112:5,12,17;113:10,14, 20,23;114:6;115:10,13, 22;116:1,3,6;117:3,6,9, 13,15;118:7,14,16,19, 21;119:7,23;120:9,11; 121:10,13,15,18;122:1, 8,14,19,23;123:13,23; 124:5,11,18;125:5,10, 14,19,22;126:2,5,8,15, 17;127:1,6,12;128:15, 19;129:3,10,16,19; 130:2,8,23;131:4,21; 132:19;133:1,17; 134:23;135:4,10,13,16, 20;136:1,6,11,17 drainage 44:14,20;61:8 draw 57:13 drawing 95:10;137:14 drawn 104:21 dried 115:15 drill (10) 29:3;30:19;31:1,2; 45:22;57:1;69:7;98:12; 121:22;141:12 drilled (22) 8:2;26:3;47:17; 49:20;50:1;70:6;74:12, 18,19;78:1,4;79:9,18; 81:6,11;85:17;87:2,11; 95:8,17;125:16,23 drilling (60) 17:7,9;18:20;25:23; 27:5,15;28:5,11,13,20; 29:1,8,22,23;30:3,8; 35:11;36:15;37:6,22; 38:21;39:15;43:12; 44:3,16;52:9;53:1; 58:6,13;60:7,13;69:3, 8;71:4;80:23;82:1,12, 22;85:2,6,10;90:8,15; 91:16,17;94:2,17;96:3; 97:8;113:18;122:18; 123:9;126:8,19; 127:12;131:19;132:23; 140:1;141:17;145:11 drinking 34:20;73:20;122:7 Drive 6:15;51:10;76:7; 92:14;99:14 driveway 134:6 dry 34:12;122:23 due 22:9 dug 122:21 Dunn 139:9 during 38:9;41:2;43:12,20; 44:3;75:1;124:21; 132:22 duty 144:7 E earlier 59:18;104:15;129:6; 137:6 earth 30:8;77:15;124:16; 142:21;143:1;144:2 earthquake 49:6,12,15;50:8,15, 17,23;51:4 earthquakes 89:6,10,13,22;94:6 easily 140:18 East (16) 16:17;23:11;26:23; 33:17;39:12;45:4; 74:10;77:14,17;79:1,5, 10,22;88:16;94:1; 133:9 easy 25:8 economic 142:16,18 economically 68:3 Education 139:17 effect 81:19,21 effects 119:11 efforts 144:21 eight 93:10 eighth 59:15 either (10) 35:6;41:18;45:20; 60:10;67:1;81:18; 101:12;109:3;138:10; 140:16 elaborate 5:11;56:9 electric 78:6 elements 132:18 elevated 101:22 elevation 75:1;76:14;85:23 else 17:2,3,5,8;28:19; 80:21;100:21;101:13; 116:9 else's 66:12 elsewhere 45:22 elucidate 129:22 embedded 132:6 emitted 75:2,20;103:6 emphasize 5:6 employed 47:8;97:10 employee 45:14;47:2 employees 47:1 employment 47:5 encounter 57:2;90:16 end 72:4 endanger 145:4 ending 119:2 energy 144:22 engaged 24:9 engineering 72:23;126:5 enhance 27:14;30:9 enhanced 13:8;18:3 enhances 30:4 enough 6:10;81:17,18; 105:10;111:15;115:17; 121:15;123:1;138:17 ensure 23:19;41:17;141:1 enterprise 119:17 entry 110:3,20 environment 24:16,23;91:7; 144:14 environmental 24:4,10;39:16 EPA 18:12;19:8;22:4; 31:15,23;97:18; Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] directed - EPA ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 102:20;117:19 equipment 101:4;119:1 equipped 32:14 error 108:17 escape 109:16;112:1 escaping 65:10;121:8,14 especially 140:21;141:18 essence 70:15;123:15 established 32:4 estimate 9:6;19:13;40:21,22; 41:10,13;43:18 estimates 6:23;7:11,13 evaluating 12:8 evaluation 12:4 even (12) 16:7,8;22:15;24:20; 34:17;39:8;40:21; 55:19;68:7;96:14; 101:1,19 evening 5:23;57:22 event 108:18 eventually 124:9 ever-increasing 143:12 everybody 31:22;39:7;71:12; 84:21;140:18 everyone 3:23;5:8;72:1; 139:20 evidenced 21:10 exactly 45:15;70:20 example 27:12;88:15;89:14; 101:12 excavation 61:23 exceeding 22:10 excellent 75:5 exception 91:5;140:20 excessive 31:9 exclusively 96:12 Excuse 6:19;20:9;45:7 exits 109:2 expansion 134:2 expect 25:11;26:12;57:2; 109:1 experience 81:23;83:1;87:13; 92:1;93:3;134:3 experienced 25:6 experiencing 141:22 expert 130:11;146:12,12 expertise 121:7 explain 11:5;14:14;23:23; 51:23;52:12;81:6; 90:23 exploratory 74:19;125:22 explore 46:9,13;130:15 explored 69:23;70:5 exploring 7:19;45:21;85:11; 131:14 explosion 10:1,14 explosive 125:5 exposed 132:22 exposure 131:18 extended 12:23;13:4,16 extends 122:2 extent 29:14 extra 68:19 extraction 65:18;66:7;129:12; 130:6 extremely 76:2,16;81:14 eye 42:11 F face 138:2 facilities 50:16 fact 21:11;35:16;48:14; 65:2;95:2,9;96:12; 101:7;143:8 factor 48:22 fail 133:14,18 failed 79:12 failing 134:5 fails 133:15 failure 102:8,9;103:2,6 failures 102:13 Fair 6:10;15:19;103:16; 138:17 fairly 47:12;101:22;109:3 faith 36:6;139:18,19; 140:2,11;142:7;143:14 faithful 144:7 fall 54:4 familiar (10) 17:19,22;53:23; 57:16;80:20;87:14,19; 124:5;128:5;129:3 families 34:16 family's 33:20 far (14) 4:12;13:2;32:21; 36:11;59:3,9,13;81:17; 82:1,22;88:4;90:11; 91:21;100:6 farm 30:1,7,11;60:19 farmers 30:3 farmland 19:19;61:8;143:18 fashion 109:5 fault 36:7,10;89:17;94:10 faults 90:3 feasible 68:4 feature 34:11 features 44:16,21 feel (12) 26:10;29:5,18,22; 49:8,8,17;55:9;56:17; 69:4;118:5;130:1 feet (34) 34:5;36:13;46:10; 48:16,17;58:20,20,22; 74:23;76:12,13,23; 78:11,12,16,16,22; 79:15;80:7;86:2;88:11; 89:19;93:20;94:7,8; 121:22;122:3;125:7; 126:18;134:21,23; 135:1,3,9 feldspar 132:4 Fell 104:11 F-E-L-L 104:11 fellow 141:8 felt 49:16;60:9 fertile 30:7;132:11 fertility 30:4,9 Fesenmyer 22:4 few 58:5;87:4;93:20; 132:4,7;134:23;135:3 field (28) 12:11;18:16,22; 33:18;34:18,22;56:19; 74:7,10,17;75:6;76:20; 77:14,17,19;79:5,11, 17,23;88:16;89:20; 93:9,18;94:1;96:21; 99:20;102:11;136:10 fields 78:4;85:11;99:21; 100:5 filters 88:7 finance 144:6 find 44:9;46:4;53:3; 55:22;86:22 findings 94:21 fine 6:20;63:6;138:11 fined 39:16 fines 39:19;40:2 finish 4:15 Finnigan (11) 3:19,20;80:11,16; 85:5,8,16,20;86:3,7,11 fire 10:1,14;32:7,13,16; 93:11 first (25) 5:10;16:20;23:8; 25:4;26:21;46:9;47:12, 13,16;52:2;59:14; 68:12;69:15;71:12,16; 74:6,17;85:10;89:14; 92:23;99:10;120:21; 127:22;133:5;144:11 firsthand 73:16;82:19 fit 52:16 five 5:17;74:14;100:4; 102:16,21;103:2;125:7 fix 35:6 flammable 9:19 flare 64:19;67:16,17;77:1; 121:12 flared 64:2 flaring 62:19,22;63:17; 64:17;65:14;66:3 flip 127:22 floor 117:23 Flora 43:9 flow 77:9,10;93:2;125:12 flowing 44:11;127:3,4 fluid (10) 28:5,11,14,20;29:8, 22,23;30:3,8;109:2 fluids 75:22;94:2;108:20; 109:16;110:4,20; 111:17,23 fluvial 107:5 focus 74:1 focused 144:22 folks 97:20 follow 66:14;67:9;68:19 followed 128:6 followers 144:23 follow-up 20:20;134:11 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] equipment - follow-up ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 food 27:14;143:21 form 27:21 formal 53:9 formaldehyde 42:21 formations 20:23;21:9;56:6 formed 75:6;140:3 forms 28:1 formulated 133:23 forth 38:17;67:10;70:18 forward 6:12;138:3 fossil 143:13,16 found 21:22;58:14;77:7; 85:13;91:3;101:21 foundation 75:6;84:5 four 6:7;8:2;81:14;114:4 fourth 74:11 four-year-old 60:20;61:2;69:4 Fox (15) 127:17,17;128:17, 21;129:5,11,18,21; 130:5,10;131:1,7; 132:17,21;133:2 F-O-X 127:17 fracture 52:16 fracturing 51:17,18,19,21;52:4, 8 Frederick 22:4 free 22:20;67:17;130:1; 143:16 frequently 30:2 fresh 43:11,22;44:4,6 friend's 70:16 fuels 143:13 fulfillment 140:18 fully 140:18 function 110:6,8,11,15,17 FUNK 45:3,3,9,19;46:2,8, 12,18 F-U-N-K 45:4 further 4:21;39:2;56:9;85:3; 130:15;136:23 furthest 105:5 future 5:12;25:15;26:12; 46:4,13 G gallons 75:2 game 144:19 gamma (11) 55:21;56:2,5,5,13, 21;75:9,15,18;76:1,2 gas (23) 21:12;46:13;48:2,16; 53:20;62:19;68:5;73:1; 78:1,3;85:11;93:14; 101:11;102:20;113:21; 115:9;119:1;121:8; 123:19;129:7,12; 130:6,9 gasses 64:2;121:14,19; 129:17,20 gave 142:23 geared 33:4 general 73:17;82:13;109:10 generally 78:22;91:2;96:10 generated 29:1 gentleman 49:10,23 gentlemen 13:10 geologic 20:23;21:9;75:8,11, 13;107:12;128:16,18; 129:4 Geological 8:16;11:9;73:10; 74:11;85:23;100:3; 101:21 geologist 72:20;129:6 geologists 115:14 geophysical 75:9,14 geophysics 115:18 geotechnical 72:22 gets 48:21;84:21 GHER (23) 57:22,23;58:4,10,14, 16,19,22;59:5,11,14, 18;60:2,14,17;61:1,7, 13,17,19;62:3,7,12 G-H-E-R 58:4 gift 142:21 given 76:1 giving 18:6;21:3;31:17; 114:17;115:3;138:22 glacial (12) 76:15,22;79:2; 104:17,22;107:4; 108:12,21;109:4; 126:22;131:22;132:13 glacier 77:4;118:9;119:6; 132:9 glad 138:18 God 140:4;142:22,23 goes 75:21;77:12;82:1,16; 119:9 Golden 89:17 good 24:10;36:6;57:22; 65:3;71:10;131:2; 140:13,15;141:4 goods 142:17 Google 74:3;77:15 Gordon 99:23 GRACE (10) 68:23,23;69:10,14, 18,23;70:7,11,22;71:7 G-R-A-C-E 68:23 grading 111:9 grandson 60:20;61:2;69:4 granite 83:15,18;118:8; 130:21;131:7;132:3,7, 8 granitic 131:21 graphic 105:11 gravel 78:14;84:4 gray 100:17 graze 91:23 great 11:23;131:8 greater 10:11 greenhouse 129:20 Gregg 39:10;133:8 G-R-E-G-G 39:11;133:9 grinds 132:9 ground 18:18;58:7;60:19; 118:8;119:5,19; 123:11;125:1 groundwater 83:12;124:10;125:3, 13 group 46:14 groups 140:17 growing 91:22 guarantee 24:2;33:21 guaranteeing 33:23 guess (14) 19:1,1;23:1;24:13, 14;32:19;50:3;55:20; 59:8;63:15;70:13,22; 109:23;120:14 guidance 98:4 H half 48:11 half-life 114:4,5 hand 20:5;23:8;68:22; 114:23;116:11;127:16; 138:2 handle 32:14 handling 32:6 hands 71:9;136:23 happen 10:22;25:16;102:12; 103:15;111:1,16; 112:10 happened 49:9;121:8 happening 66:23;131:19;141:11 happens 12:7;13:3;60:1; 68:12 hard 78:17;79:23;144:4 harm (13) 24:3,15,22;88:13; 89:2;140:23;141:7,7, 10,14;145:7,7,8 harmful 42:10;91:18,20,21; 92:2 harmony 143:3;144:1 hash 133:3 hazardous 19:4,4,12;41:1,10; 64:14;65:4;89:13 hazards 64:12;131:5 head 19:15;75:4;92:14 header 75:8 Health (12) 18:12;19:8;64:10,12; 65:13;66:2;68:11; 120:3,6;131:9;141:4; 145:4 hear 32:20;137:12 heard 5:3;120:23;145:9 hearing 4:5;5:21;16:22; 51:15;71:17;72:9; 98:17 Heiser (15) 40:7,7,10,15,20;41:5, 9,14,22;42:3,8,14,18; 43:2,6 H-E-I-S-E-R 40:8 help 32:10;52:23;143:2 helpful 43:17 helps 99:12 HERR (136) 7:4,6,9,12,17,21;8:2, 10,14,19;9:2,8,14;10:2, 8,15,20;11:7,19;12:2, 10,21;13:1,6,14,21; 14:8,16;15:1,4,13;16:6, 8,10;17:14,17,21;18:1, 9,14,19,23;19:10,15, Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] food - HERR ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 20,23;23:22;24:5,18; 25:2,17;26:1,14;27:9, 13,21;28:2,7,13,16,23; 29:10,19;30:2,12,15, 23;33:1;34:1,23;35:3, 6,12;43:13,18,22;44:1, 5,8,18,22;45:8,13;47:2; 50:7,22;51:14;52:2,11, 14;53:2,8,13,15,18,22; 54:4,8,11,19;55:3,12, 18,23;56:4,9,18,23; 57:7,12,19;58:8;61:21; 62:17,23;63:4,8,11,18; 64:1,6,11,18,22;65:2, 11,19;67:15,20,23; 68:3;69:9,12,16,22; 70:2 HEYL (45) 51:9,9,13;52:7,12, 20;53:6,11,14,17,19, 23;54:7,9,17;55:2,6,16, 21;56:1,8,15,20;57:3,8, 16,20;116:14,16,17; 117:4,8,12,14;118:1, 11,15,18,20,23;119:8; 120:2,10,14,18 H-E-Y-L 51:13;116:17 Hi 33:14;45:3;68:23; 121:1 high 48:12;93:22;103:9; 115:16;118:3;121:15; 131:16 higher 7:8;91:13;100:18; 129:23;132:14 highest 83:11 high-volume 51:17 Hill 78:1 hired 115:13 hold 110:9,10,15;124:13 holding 22:1 hole 34:12;93:23;110:9, 10,15;121:22 holes 124:21,22 Holy 139:15,16 home 59:6,7;83:7;143:1,5 homes 21:11;118:4 hope 4:6;64:9 hopefully 6:6;133:3 hoping 3:23 horizon 78:15;125:6 horizontal 51:17 horizontally 110:13 host 83:20;90:21 hours 16:22;33:2 house 83:11;117:19,20; 132:19 human 141:8;142:4,13 humanity 142:19 hundred 47:23;76:12;81:14; 122:13;134:21 hundreds 95:22;125:16 hurt 140:9 hurts 140:9 hydraulic (17) 51:17,18,21;52:4,8; 92:14;103:11;106:12; 109:19;111:8,8,11,11, 14;112:7,9;135:4 hydraulically 52:16 hydraulics 127:3 hyperbolic 48:12 hypothetical 15:22 hypothetically 26:8;135:7 I idea 118:21;126:11 ideas 117:4 identification 56:6,14 identified 50:14 identifying 76:3 IDNR 14:20 II 140:14;142:15 ILLINOIS (49) 3:1;9:18;11:18;16:2; 18:11,12;19:10;23:12; 25:5;34:3;45:5;49:7, 12;50:1;52:15;53:20; 57:18;67:12;69:1;70:8, 10;72:15,20;73:9,13, 19,23;74:11,15;80:23; 82:13,16;87:12,13; 90:13;93:3;97:12,17; 99:20;100:4,7,17; 108:3;121:2;127:18; 128:12;134:10;139:5, 14 illustrate 77:18 illustrates 140:12 image 74:3;77:15;140:5 imagining 51:3 immediately 79:10;98:11;133:15 impact 65:14;66:3 implication 96:2 implications 95:1 important 76:2;79:12;80:2; 129:17;139:21;143:19, 21 incidents 26:4 includes 141:3 incorrect 31:12;40:14 increase 10:9,17,19;38:19,22; 125:12;129:13,14; 142:11 increased 9:23;10:13 increases 12:19 indeed 140:7 independent 47:3;60:5,11 indicate 85:14;105:14;123:1 indicated 87:7 indication 56:1 indications 119:15 individual 4:10;35:13;71:2 individuals 140:17 induced 75:19;89:13 industry 24:11;61:4;98:4; 102:20;115:9;119:1 infiltration 21:12 inflicted 141:8 information (10) 8:15;12:13;47:13; 49:4;54:13;73:12,15; 86:15;111:16;131:2 informed 4:8;140:3 informs 142:7 infrared 42:12 initial 8:16;11:8,16,20 initially 8:23 injecting 89:15;93:20 injection (23) 13:12,16,17,20,22; 14:7,12,13,15;15:3,5,7, 10;16:3;89:2,12,19,22; 90:6;99:17;102:6,14; 103:23 injections 89:5 Insofar 96:20 insoluble 91:3 inspector 82:16 install 34:9 instance 141:13 instances 16:2;103:21 Institute 100:2 integrity 102:8;103:2;110:2; 124:23 intelligent 144:17 intends 57:1 interactive 73:14 interacts 75:21 interest 63:23;119:12 interested (10) 4:7;68:6;71:2;72:2; 84:20;98:23;107:15; 118:5;130:14;145:21 Interstate 76:7 interval 125:7 intervening 108:23;109:7 intimately 140:6 into (35) 16:23;29:22;31:9; 41:23;42:15,17;60:18; 64:16,20;65:10;66:11, 20;67:19;77:15;88:11, 22;89:16;92:5;95:18; 96:4;100:1;106:13; 110:4,20;111:3; 115:19;119:8,10; 124:10,22;125:12,16; 131:10,19;132:19 investigated 25:13 invisible 42:11 invite 144:3 involved 17:9;96:8;112:6 involves 98:6 isotopes 21:21 issuance 145:1 issue 6:22;9:17;36:11; 60:14;84:23;87:5;93:4; 96:20;140:3 issues 71:21;141:22 Ivy 127:18 J James 101:20 Jefferson 40:8 Jenny 23:11,15 J-E-N-N-Y 23:16 Jim 3:19 job 134:5 Joseph 68:23 Judd 3:7 Juergen 20:6,11;31:6 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] HEYL - Juergen ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 J-U-E-R-G-E-N 20:15 Julia 3:13 June 49:5;50:19,23 K KAMM (11) 23:11,11,15,18,23; 24:13,21;25:14,19; 26:8,18 K-A-M-M 23:15 keep 42:5;66:10 keeper 140:8 KEYLIN (29) 121:1,2,11,14,17,19; 122:4,9,15,20;123:3, 21;124:1,7,14,20; 125:8,11,15,20;126:1, 3,7,11,16,19;127:2,8, 14 K-E-Y-L-I-N 121:3 kicking 65:3,6 Kiley 8:6,10,11;12:7 killed 24:6 killing 143:13 kind (23) 12:8;24:15,22;31:5; 41:16,19;51:21;54:2; 56:16;57:4,5;69:10; 83:2,3;88:5;96:13; 106:8;107:14;108:15; 125:20;135:7;142:9,9 Knapp (11) 5:11,13;6:5;58:2; 84:9;133:7;137:16,18; 138:5,14;147:7 knew 97:2 knobs 42:4 knowing 61:5;90:11;103:10 knowledge 82:19;85:5;86:6,8,8; 96:1;97:1,15,18 known 25:6;68:1;90:3,5 Kreitzer 113:5 Kuritz 3:9,10;81:16;82:22; 88:3,10 L lab 60:5,11 labeled 76:15 lack 87:20;141:23 ladies 13:10 lake 93:9;127:18 land (10) 19:5;46:3;61:16,22; 62:11;90:10;143:20, 23;144:11;145:8 landfill 101:19;102:3 landowner 44:9;61:12,13,15,17 landowners 55:2;87:1 Lane 46:22 large 14:19;73:23;82:21; 90:21;143:21 last (16) 4:12;5:21;9:14; 16:22;27:3;32:18;34:2; 48:1;51:12;58:2;62:15, 18;69:12,13;75:7; 104:9 late 5:22 later 5:4,8,9;22:20;23:6; 94:19 latter 51:19 law 52:18,22;53:3;54:1 layers 110:20;111:5 lead 21:4 leaders 144:23 leading 22:15 leads 108:16 leak 92:4;121:21;122:6,6, 12;127:7;134:22;135:8 leaked 92:12;125:1 leased 46:2 leases 46:7 least 95:22;114:9 led 16:4 left 6:21;13:19;77:23; 119:5 legislature 53:10 less 36:20;48:6;78:22 letter 22:3 Level 57:17;90:14;124:10 levels 101:1,22;103:8; 118:3;119:15 Lewis 31:7,10 Lexington 93:9 lie 44:16 lies 80:3 life 140:21,22;141:3,5; 142:4;143:23;144:3; 145:8 light 9:19 likelihood 94:3;95:1;134:4 likely 21:14;63:2;89:9; 92:3;113:18;146:7 Limestones 56:11;91:11;132:15 limit 22:19 limitation 59:11 limits 22:10 Lincoln 76:8 line 76:9;94:10;105:4 lines 75:17 link 130:6,8 liquid 123:4;127:4 liquids 89:13,16;125:12 list 11:12;27:5,7;137:1; 138:6;146:20 listed 48:14 listening 127:20 literally 97:10;143:13 lithology 56:13 little (18) 5:21;12:18;20:20; 63:14;71:11;74:9; 77:22;78:8;91:1,11; 94:16;106:11;117:1; 126:12;128:3;130:15; 141:19;144:2 live (12) 34:16;39:11;46:22; 57:23;62:15;66:12; 69:2;76:19;117:7; 141:2;143:3,6 lived 61:1 lives 138:22 living 20:7,11;42:19;59:1; 61:16;135:22,23 load 120:15 loaded 76:23 local (16) 32:13,13;37:8;76:18; 93:11;105:12,17,20,23; 106:3,4,8;107:4; 122:10;126:12;136:19 locate 44:10 located 74:7,9;97:11;136:5 location 56:7;77:21;78:18; 105:4 locations 77:16 Locust 39:12;133:10 log 55:22;56:22;75:9,10, 16;78:6,10;90:11 logging 75:12 logical 128:22 logs 76:2;109:9;115:14; 127:12 lonely 31:5 long 32:11;43:2;52:17; 103:20;135:8 look (11) 26:20;59:16;76:4; 77:12;84:5,11,23; 128:23;131:8;136:6; 140:19 looked 11:8;82:5;87:21,23; 109:9;118:22;131:10 looking 47:15;48:23;49:3; 78:3;104:19;115:15; 123:16;128:4 looks 82:18;136:13 losers 144:20 lost 103:22 lot (11) 10:22;12:4,6;49:11; 81:18;87:11,13;103:7; 117:17,23;135:3 lots 91:6 Louis 49:16 love 140:5;142:6 low 25:7;57:16;94:1; 101:3;109:20;112:6; 134:19;135:5,6 lower 7:9;134:5 lung 63:21 lungs 66:11,12,12 M ma'am 43:5,13;55:13;57:19; 64:7 MacFar- 70:13 MacFarlane (81) 31:4,12;32:1,17; 35:17,23;36:2,9,14,17; 37:1,4,11,18;38:5,13, 18;39:18,21;40:4,14, 17;41:3,8,12,21;42:1,7, 13,16,22;43:5;45:14, 16;46:1,6,11,16,20; 47:8,14,20;48:9,19,23; 49:14,21;50:3;58:9,12, 15,17,21;59:3,8,12,16, 23;60:4,16,21;61:4,10, 15,18,20;62:5,10; 65:20,23;66:8,14;67:3, 9,13;70:3,4,9,14,19; 71:5 Macon 70:6,9;77:15;78:5 Madam 15:18 magnitudes 108:14 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] J-U-E-R-G-E-N - magnitudes ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 Mahomet (42) 25:19,22;26:1,6,9; 71:17;73:7,18;74:15; 76:7,11,17;77:18,20; 79:7,16;81:5,10,13; 92:5,9,10,14;95:17,18; 96:2,4;104:22,23; 105:14;106:9,13,22; 107:5;112:2;125:17; 126:13;127:23;128:6, 8,20;137:15 main 110:8 mainly 33:19 maintain 25:17;64:19;144:4 major 39:23;50:13;73:22; 74:13 makes 65:20;131:22;140:5, 7 making 7:11;36:6,8 man 61:22 Management 57:17 manipulation 144:18 man-made 108:17 many (15) 11:20;19:13;21:11; 34:5;55:8;58:23;82:14; 83:6,15,22;84:4;85:16; 95:10;96:9;99:13 map 95:10,10;106:22; 108:9;127:23;128:9, 10,23;146:3 mapped 25:20;26:2;105:21; 106:2;107:8 Maquoketa 46:14;100:9,11,13, 17 Marcellus 101:8 Margaret 121:1,2 Marilea 62:14 M-A-R-I-L-E-A 62:15 marine 91:4,6 Mark 3:7 market 68:4 Mary 139:3 M-A-R-Y 139:4 material (13) 18:4;31:9;78:9; 90:20;91:7,9;102:3; 103:11;108:13;109:2; 131:22;134:18;135:3 materials (14) 21:1,10;73:8;76:3, 15;79:3;82:23;85:13; 107:5;118:9;129:4; 131:23;132:11,14 matter 39:6;63:7;101:7 maximum 146:11 may (22) 5:4;6:16;8:14;14:20; 16:18;20:17;30:4; 38:19,19;52:15;71:22; 83:23;84:18;94:14; 99:2,3;114:14;120:2; 124:12;126:14;139:2; 146:17 maybe 51:3;52:8;86:16; 120:3;124:3;128:2 McLean (22) 3:4;18:12;20:23; 21:9;45:5,11;46:3; 73:3,18;74:1;78:5; 79:20;118:2,6,8; 119:16;131:16;139:22; 142:10;143:17,22; 144:16 mean (24) 15:6;19:2;24:7,11; 30:6;48:7;51:23;52:12, 14;54:12;62:23;63:12; 64:23;66:17;83:1;86:7, 8,13;88:4;102:19; 104:18;125:3;129:22; 142:8 means 5:12;14:15;81:7; 126:16;140:21;142:11 meant (10) 15:12,16;70:7,11; 81:9;105:14;116:12; 120:22,22;142:19 measured 95:21 measures 65:8,12,16;66:5,9; 67:7;68:20;112:9 mechanical 102:8,8 median 100:4 medium 100:17 meet 38:15;52:17;68:13; 146:5;147:4 meeting 4:12;32:18;34:2; 48:1;62:18;147:7 Melody 46:22 member 139:15 members 3:21;4:8;80:9;85:4; 145:16 mention 8:19;52:21;136:3 mentioned 18:15;52:22;109:1; 114:8;115:7;121:4; 122:20;125:15;138:18 mentions 8:22 merely 142:17 metal 28:21;29:7,11 metals 29:3 methane (26) 62:19;63:19,20; 64:16,19;65:9,17;66:4, 6,11,20;67:7,17,22; 68:7,10;76:23;77:3,6,7, 9;121:4,7,17;129:15; 130:11 method 13:5 mic 17:15;20:9;51:7 Michael 3:9 microseisms 89:21 mics 4:3 might (20) 5:8;12:8;15:15;19:2; 26:12;27:4,12;28:20; 29:2;54:18,23;64:3; 65:15;109:16;115:2; 119:3;122:11,17; 128:23;129:12 migrates 101:2 migration 111:20 mile 59:15;78:23 miles 94:20;95:3,3;103:7; 105:7;136:14,15 million 48:16,17;73:19 mimic 89:22 Minard (22) 7:23;11:2;22:4,6; 24:12;26:14;31:8; 39:14;45:10,20;46:2,8, 12;47:1,6;50:4,6,8; 56:23;140:1;141:12; 145:11 minardrunoilcom 47:11 mind 63:5;140:20 mineral 55:4;69:20,20;132:6 minerals 83:20 mines 132:1 minimal 130:20 minimum 102:20 minor 39:18,20,22;40:2,2 minute 75:3 minutes 5:17,18;16:23;72:5; 146:10,14 Miriam 72:14 mischaracterization 52:5 misdirected 70:23 missed 69:14 mistake 9:15;26:11 mix 28:14;29:8;130:13 mixed 28:6;30:12;132:10 mixer 133:22 mixing 91:16 model 112:10 models 112:12 moment 46:7 monitor 22:6;42:17 moot 13:6,9,17 morals 145:5 more (32) 5:18;9:12,22;56:10; 68:22;71:9;83:13;84:3; 89:9;91:1;93:7;98:20; 99:20;108:13,22; 109:6,6,8;117:23; 119:13;123:4;125:2; 127:2;128:3;131:15; 133:15,15;137:14; 140:18,18;142:17; 146:19 most 30:7;42:9;57:7;63:2; 68:7;90:5;113:17; 143:18 Mount 93:21 Mountain 89:15 move 12:17;109:3,17; 111:4;118:1 moved 50:20 movement 112:11 Moving 75:7;110:12,12 much (18) 10:22;13:23;15:6; 40:6;41:10;43:11,19, 22;71:7;79:11;82:11; 85:21;95:6;103:1; 104:4;116:20;132:14; 134:5 mud (11) 18:20;27:15,16;28:6, 8,10;90:8,12;91:16,18; 94:2 multiple 119:12;135:10; 136:16,17 muriatic 123:8,13,15 mutual 93:11 myth 131:11 N naked 42:11 name (34) 6:13;16:15,16;20:14; 23:10,13;27:1;33:15; 39:9,10;40:7;45:3; 46:21;51:9,12;53:6,9; 57:22;58:2;62:14,15; 72:12;99:11;104:7,8,9; 113:7;121:1;133:6,8; 138:21,21;139:3;143:4 Namely 20:21 names 39:7,8;124:4 Natural 18:11;19:11;48:16; Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (10) Mahomet - Natural ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 68:5;75:19;144:11,13 naturally 88:19,22 nature 147:1 near 8:6;25:14;50:10; 89:17;126:19;127:10; 138:22 nearby 12:11;16:4;127:13 nearest 95:4 necessarily 7:7 necessary 14:20;26:16;77:8 need (13) 17:15;25:18;29:11; 60:19;71:5;84:11; 101:23;104:6;112:21; 113:3;138:15,16;146:2 needed 140:22 needs 141:2;143:2 negative 65:14;66:3 neglect 137:6 neglected 137:7 neighbor 59:19;140:19 neighborhood 86:1 neighboring 70:1,5,7 neighbors 62:4,9;69:2,21;70:16 neighbors' 135:17 neighbor's 140:21 neither 77:18 Nelson (191) 71:23;72:4,8,14,14, 16,19;73:5;80:14,18, 19;81:2,9,20;82:7,15; 83:4;84:3,13,22;85:7, 10,18,22;86:6,10,20, 23;87:9,15,18,23;88:8, 15;89:4,7,11;90:14,18, 20;91:2,19;92:1,6,8,13, 19;93:5,16,18;94:12, 14,15,22;95:6,20,23; 96:6,16,19,23;97:5,13, 21;98:3,8,13,19;99:4, 16,22;100:6,11,13,22; 101:5,7,14;102:5,10, 14,17,22;103:4,10,18; 104:2,14;105:2,8,16; 106:2,6,10,17;107:1, 10,18,21;108:2,7,10, 14;109:8,19;110:8,14, 18,22;111:7,13,19; 112:5,12,17;113:10,14, 20,23;114:6;115:10,13, 22;116:1,3,6;117:3,6,9, 13,15;118:7,14,16,19, 21;119:7,23;120:9,11; 121:10,13,15,18;122:1, 8,14,19,23;123:13,23; 124:5,11,18;125:5,10, 14,19,22;126:2,5,8,15, 17;127:1,6,12;128:15, 19;129:3,10,16,19; 130:2,8,23;131:4,21; 132:19;133:1,17; 134:23;135:4,10,13,16, 20;136:1,6,11,17 Nelson's 8:5,9,21;11:13;72:10 neutralized 123:22 neutralizes 123:20 neutron 75:10,16;76:2 neutrons 75:20,22 New 49:22;100:7,14; 119:17 Next 11:1;31:1,2;69:7; 78:9;120:22,22;128:2; 139:8 nice 84:5 Nicor 93:8,11,18;102:11, 17 night 69:8;71:16;138:1; 146:5,8;147:5,10 nobody 19:8 nodded 120:21 noise 69:10 None 6:4;44:1;59:12;97:2; 105:15;122:1 nonpollutable 88:18 nonradioactive 56:12 nor 77:19;142:18 normal (16) 11:16,17;20:12,12; 23:12;43:9;46:22;49:8, 9,17;62:16;63:1;74:6, 17;104:11;117:15 normally 18:3;32:9 North 33:16;45:4;79:1; 80:3;127:18 northeast 74:8 note 78:7 notice 74:22;75:17 noticed 128:12 notion 140:11;141:18 November 50:9 number (34) 8:6,11;10:18;11:2,5; 19:17;39:12;40:15,22; 46:15;50:12;53:3,5; 76:17;77:13,17,19,22; 78:19,23;79:2,9;81:15; 83:19;95:8,16;115:8; 131:4;136:12;137:3; 139:9;140:4;142:21; 145:2 numbers 48:4 numerous 78:4 O o0o- 3:3;147:15 oath 22:16,18 object 84:6 objection 6:3 objections 9:5,8 objectors 4:7;72:3;84:20; 137:12;145:22 objectors' 98:23 objectors'/interested 137:4 objects 142:13 obligate 35:20 observation 111:21;135:15,18 obtain 52:19;54:5;69:16 obtained 34:9 obtaining 54:11;76:22 obviously 12:12;59:1 occupies 73:19 occupying 18:3 occur 122:17 occurred 50:9 occurs 35:13 o'clock 147:5,11 OCTOBER 3:1;51:15;62:18; 147:10 off (10) 6:21;19:15;25:4; 48:22;51:7;76:1;77:14; 78:10;79:1;121:12 Office 73:1 offsets 90:4 often 12:7;36:16 oil (110) 7:3,16,19;8:7,17;9:5, 6,11;12:23,23;13:4,8; 18:15,21;22:5,6;25:6; 26:14;33:3,18;34:17, 21;38:21;40:11,11,16; 41:15;43:21;45:11,21, 22;46:4,9,13;47:18; 48:2,15;50:13;53:20; 54:18,22;55:5,11,14, 17,22;56:3,7,16;57:2,4, 11,14;58:14;65:17; 66:6;67:8;68:7;73:1; 74:2,10;77:7,8,9,10,14, 17,19;78:1;79:5,11,13, 17,20;80:1;85:1;89:20; 90:15;93:6,15;99:20, 21;100:5;101:2,10,17; 102:19;113:18;115:9, 16;119:1;121:11,21; 122:6,12,22;123:1; 125:1;126:1,2;129:7, 12;130:6,9,12;132:22; 133:23;136:10;140:1; 141:12 Oklahoma 90:7 old 53:19;77:4;101:10 older 48:10 old-time 95:13 once 6:13;98:9;102:21 one (60) 4:11;5:15;6:10;9:18; 11:10;12:12;14:4; 15:21,23;16:7,8;33:17; 37:1,3;39:14;40:22; 49:5;50:13,19;65:20; 68:22;73:22;75:7;79:2; 80:2;81:11,18;83:19; 84:3;87:1,4,12;90:21; 93:1;95:13;99:20; 104:18,18;109:11; 120:3;121:19;122:10; 123:7,9;128:2,4,14; 129:23;136:16;138:10; 140:4,7,8,10;141:8,13; 142:5,5;144:8;146:19 ones 69:5;105:20;136:18 ongoing 24:8;36:22 only (17) 4:11;5:7;10:12; 11:10;75:3;78:11,11; 84:3;91:5;102:15,21; 125:8,10;135:3;141:5, 6;143:20 on-site 13:11,20;14:21;15:3; 18:16;32:7 onto 79:13 open 80:8 operate 26:6 operated 50:8 operating 66:16 operation (13) 10:23;12:23;37:10; 38:9,21;41:11;54:2,3; 89:23;96:22;97:20; 98:2;113:18 operations 13:17 operator 61:12;102:23 operators 68:8 opine 7:18 opinion 38:20;63:8;81:17,20; 107:20;111:23;121:9 opportunity 17:11;72:3 opposed 64:17 order 3:5;68:10,13;74:16; 84:11 organic Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (11) naturally - organic ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 40:23;63:7;91:6; 100:14,15 organizations 24:14;143:15 origin 116:18,22 O'Rourke (15) 11:2;30:1,7;46:15; 74:9;77:13,16,19,21; 78:19,23;79:1;104:16; 105:4,13 O'Rourkes 61:14 others (10) 4:16;16:13;20:4; 21:11;23:8;56:10; 126:3;140:23;141:14; 144:10 Otten 101:21 Otto 100:1 ourselves 142:10;143:20 out (30) 14:6,8,22;24:19; 28:20;32:16;48:12; 61:11,22;63:13;67:8; 75:21;76:19;77:1; 78:15;79:8;82:16,18; 84:13;85:13;90:12; 99:3;118:2;128:7; 129:2;130:12;133:4; 140:5;141:9,13 outside 45:11;76:19 over (17) 31:5;47:17,18;55:6; 60:18;80:13;89:19; 95:17;96:4;99:12,12; 101:6;106:13;113:23; 130:1;133:16;143:15 overrode 77:4 overview 127:23 own 140:5;144:8 owned 55:4 P page 47:12,13,16;49:1 pages 73:14 paid 45:10;54:21;69:19; 115:9;116:4 papers 53:3 parameters 22:10;82:17 Park 106:14 part (20) 5:22;39:22;41:5; 43:4;54:15;72:11; 74:13;78:2;89:16; 90:16;100:7,7;101:11; 108:1,2;121:5;124:20, 21;125:8,10 partial 110:6 particular (10) 13:13;14:13;36:12; 45:17;95:2;97:19,19; 98:2;105:20;106:22 particularly 61:10 particulate 63:6 parties 4:7;72:2;77:2;84:20; 145:21 parties' 98:23;137:4 parts 75:15 party 107:16 passed 97:16 past 39:17;47:16;60:15 Pat 43:8 patterns 81:13 pawns 144:19 pay 54:19,23;55:4 penetrations 26:5 22:7;31:7;49:22 people (18) 6:7;24:8,18;42:19; 43:14;66:12;99:3; 103:21;134:15;135:22; 137:23;139:5;140:16; 142:7,10;144:17; 145:7;146:6 people's 64:10,12;139:14 Peoria 69:1;127:19 per (18) 7:3,16;8:7,8,22;9:5, 11,11,12,13;10:5;11:3, 14;40:16;47:18;48:6,6, 7 percent 11:15,17,21;23:20; 24:2;122:13 percentage 133:13 performed 60:10 perhaps 21:23;63:2;70:16 period 25:12 peripheral 112:21 permanently 22:2 permeable 108:13,22;109:6,8, 14,16;111:5;112:3 permit (15) 13:14,22;15:5;54:6, 12,15;68:14;88:21; 98:7,9,16;120:4;140:1; 145:3,11 permits 52:19;145:2 permitted 14:21;15:6,8,11 Permitting 141:12 Perschall 71:19 person 139:18;140:5,9; 141:2,6;146:15 personally 7:21;61:2;62:5 personnel 75:12 person's 69:8 perspective 140:3 pertaining 33:20 Peter 80:6;88:16,18 Petroleum 100:1,16 phone 128:12 phosgene 89:16 phrase 15:16 picked 3:23;12:12 piece 144:2 pieces 28:22;29:7 piezometric 75:5 pipe 29:3;101:3 pipeline 17:3 pipes 118:22;119:1,3 place 35:21;37:8,16;70:21; 96:4;124:13;143:5 places 89:11;92:2;130:13 plainer 15:7 plan (10) 12:22;18:9;25:14,15; 35:21;37:16;38:4,10; 46:8;51:20 planet 143:14 planned 13:1;40:11 planning 12:4;107:23;141:19, 23 plans 35:1;45:22;46:16; 52:3 plants 91:22 plating 100:18 playgrounds 119:2 playing 119:3 please (18) 3:5;6:12;16:15; 23:14;27:1;33:12,15; 51:8,12,23;53:7;72:13; 113:7;114:14;115:12; 133:7;138:4;139:6 pledged 143:16 plug 34:13 plumes 103:6 pm 3:2;4:13;72:7; 147:14 pockets 142:12 point (15) 4:6;13:17;35:2; 76:19;79:8;80:4;84:17, 22;94:13;95:4;112:3; 114:19;123:9;125:1; 131:13 poison 143:1,5 poisoned 24:6 poisoning 141:17 poking 128:11 pole 33:11 policy 36:6;37:7,16;38:4, 10,11;70:15,18 pollutants 41:1,10;42:10 polluted 35:4,22;37:9,12 pollution 26:4;33:22;35:15; 40:23;69:10;144:13 polymers 27:13 pond 44:9 ponds 22:1 poor 30:4;97:23 porousness 134:13 portable 89:3 position 74:5 positioned 92:8 possibility 127:3,11 possible (10) 102:7;104:14; 122:16;123:10;124:7; 125:12;126:20;127:4, 5,9 possibly 10:1,13;15:2;29:2; 121:17,20,22;122:6; 124:10 potassium 132:4 potential 34:17;35:15;85:15; 129:23;141:7,16 potentially 36:7,10 powder 132:10 practical 120:1,2 practice 4:9;5:14;52:15; 87:10;98:15 precautions 66:23 precious 142:21 precision 125:5 precursor 89:16 predict 109:23;111:16 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (12) organizations - predict ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 premised 120:14 prepared 43:18 preparing 146:9 present 4:16;71:21;94:19; 95:14;137:15 presentation 108:3;127:21 president 22:4 press 113:3 pressure 42:6;75:4;93:1,19, 22,23;117:18 pressures 25:7 prestige 142:18 pre-stressed 90:2 pretty 65:3;82:3,11;95:6; 103:9;128:13;130:20; 131:12 prevent 64:12;65:9;66:23; 110:3,20;141:10,14; 142:3 preventing 110:11 previous (10) 20:20;32:5;58:13; 72:9;79:20;81:12; 85:18;86:4;87:2; 122:21 previously 110:5 primarily 56:13;137:15 primary 56:4;110:15 prior (10) 35:14;36:15;37:5,22; 60:7,12;61:22;71:4; 85:6;86:14 privileged 107:16 probable 90:6 probably (16) 19:16;29:4;31:21; 36:13,14;44:1;68:4; 71:10;86:23;90:5; 96:11,15;97:5;113:17; 121:12;134:23 problem (13) 29:18;32:23;49:12; 85:1;86:9,16,17,17,18; 96:14,14;97:3;122:16 problems 32:6;80:12;86:4; 96:19;122:17 procedural 147:1 procedure 97:14 procedures 4:1;66:16,17 proceed 16:19;20:18;39:1; 137:3;139:2 proceedings 147:14 process (18) 4:5;17:7;27:5;29:1; 43:12,21;44:4;65:18; 66:7;82:3,6;88:6; 97:10,19;98:6;123:9; 124:21;146:22 processing 27:14 produce 11:3;12:9;47:18; 48:2;54:18 produced 8:7;13:11;14:20; 54:22 producer 143:21 producers 101:17 produces 6:23 producing 10:4;34:8;125:6; 142:17 product 21:13;119:18 production (11) 8:17;9:6,7;11:8,16, 20;12:16;54:21;79:13; 142:16,18 productive 74:23 products 63:1,12;64:9,11 professional 72:19;111:22 professor 96:8;113:9 profiles 107:3 profit 142:9,18 profits 142:8;144:12 prohibit 19:11 prohibited 14:13 prohibits 13:15 property (14) 28:11;30:22;38:8,12, 14,22;44:11;54:21; 57:23;58:13;61:9;85:6; 86:14;138:23 proposal 97:7 proposed 44:15;81:16;94:17; 97:8;122:2;145:3 proposing 13:15 prospects 74:2 protect 68:11 protective 114:9 protocol 117:20;141:19,23 prove 60:2,4 proven 37:12;59:19 provide 35:8;52:23;110:2; 143:2 provided 54:14;107:15 provision 35:7;101:15 provisions 98:15;101:17 proximity 59:7;139:1,12 public (12) 23:19;44:11;52:18, 22;53:3,5,11;68:12; 73:12;108:1;120:6; 145:5 publications 131:5 published 8:15;11:9;74:14; 107:23 pump 48:7;75:1,2;79:12 pumped 122:22 pumping 88:10;103:1 purchase 44:8,12;68:5,6 purpose 142:16 purposes 12:3 purview 85:14 put (10) 32:16;34:6;54:2,3; 60:18;69:5;73:5;74:20; 79:13;88:21 putting 111:20 Q qualify 146:11 qualities 141:5 quality 29:23;36:19,20; 37:21;60:7,12;144:3; 145:8 quantities 14:19;64:19;68:6; 90:21 quantity 67:16 quarter 73:20 quartz 132:3 questioner 20:21 questioners 4:14 quickly 25:1;125:2 quite 9:19;25:8;26:2,5; 50:12;95:14;124:15; 141:3 quorum 3:22 quote 14:22;140:13,15,22; 142:15;144:6,15; 145:2,6 quoting 14:9 R radiation 55:21;56:2,21;75:18; 82:23;83:17,19;131:5 radioactive (17) 18:4;20:21;21:1,10, 12,20;29:14;31:9; 56:10,11;57:17;82:23; 90:13;99:20;119:3; 122:17;132:18 radioactivity (11) 29:6,12,16;31:22; 32:1;55:7;57:6;90:17; 99:17;101:1;119:21 radionuclide 113:17 radionuclides 101:9;113:12 radium (16) 18:8,13;19:22,22; 101:22;111:11;113:16, 20;114:5;116:23; 117:1;118:15;119:9; 130:17;131:17,18 Radon (34) 17:9;21:12;83:6,8, 10,12,13;84:22;85:1; 113:13,21;114:4; 116:18,22;117:2,5,9, 20,23;118:3,6,8,12,14, 15,16;119:10,11,15; 122:15;130:18,20; 131:16,17 rain 124:8 raise 114:23 raised 71:18 range 11:16;12:1;89:20 ranges 111:13 rapid 33:5 rapidly 93:10 rates 89:23;131:16 rather 9:10,21;112:13; 138:9;141:1 ratio 85:14 Rau (66) 4:17,18,22;6:1,11,14, 14,18,21;7:5,8,10,14, 19,23;8:4,11,18,21;9:4, 10,17;10:4,9,17;11:1, 13,23;12:3,17,22;13:3, 9,18;14:2,3,4,11,18; 15:2,9,18,21;16:7,9; 99:14,14,23;100:9,12, 20,23;101:6,10,16; 102:1,2,6,12,15,19,23; 103:5,13,19;104:3 raw 64:16;65:9 ray 56:5,13;75:10,15; 76:1,2 reach 112:2;140:17 reaction 123:18 reactive 124:11 read 69:17 readily 88:17 real 63:22;83:15;85:1; 122:15;123:6;143:7 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (13) premised - real ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 reality 75:20;93:5;100:18 realize 139:19 really (11) 11:4;22:14;65:1,6,6; 98:6;106:19;111:23; 128:19;130:11;131:9 reaped 144:12 reason 17:14,18;31:21; 110:1;114:9;129:1 reasonable 12:6 rebuttal 94:19;137:16 recall 104:17 received 9:1 recent 90:3;141:21 recently 97:16 Recess 72:7 recognize 144:18 recognizes 143:14 recollection 11:7;51:1 reconstruction 47:22 record 16:21;24:11;72:11; 99:13 recorded 76:1 recording 75:18 recover 41:15 recovered 41:18 recovery 12:23;13:4,8;41:16, 19;42:4;43:21 red 77:22 redirect 137:8,18 reducing 91:7 re-entry 115:18 refer 45:13;65:19 referenced 27:3 referred 50:9;135:15 referring 18:19;50:6,7,18 refining 88:6 regard 144:10 regarding 128:7 regional 78:2 regular 77:8;79:18 regulate 52:15;80:23;81:1; 82:11 regulated 51:22;52:1,10,13; 82:11 regulating 82:12 regulation 53:1;54:12 regulations (12) 66:15;67:10,12; 68:19;80:20;81:3;82:1; 97:16,17;98:1;101:11; 142:3 regulatory 54:1 related 22:3;96:3 relationship 47:5;73:17;74:1 relative 74:4;130:12;131:3 relatively 56:12 Release 17:8;67:19 released 41:1,11,17,23;42:10, 15,17;113:21;121:7 releases 114:2;123:19 relevant 15:23;114:15,20 Religious 139:16;143:15 remain 38:8 remedied 32:12;35:16 remedies 35:5;37:17 remedy 32:23;37:8;38:11,17 remember 14:2;128:3 remind 146:9 remove 28:4;29:8;30:18,19 removed 77:10 renewable 144:22 repeat 4:1;65:23;97:21; 113:2 rephrase 42:2 report 8:5,9,12,12,21,23; 11:13;14:12,18 reported 11:10;12:15 reporter 39:8;51:11;113:1 reports 74:14;96:6;128:20 represent 79:6;139:4,14 representative 61:21 request 22:8 requested 22:6;27:9 require 43:3;98:16,16 required (10) 34:3,10;35:23;36:1; 41:4,5;42:16;52:18; 54:5;67:16 requirement 98:11;102:21 requirements 36:3;42:23 rescinds 15:4 research 50:23;73:10 resemble 128:9 reservoir 117:12,13 residences 34:21 resident 73:2 residents 16:5;33:17;35:10,20; 36:8;38:11;71:3;73:21; 139:22 residents' 136:19 resident's 38:14 resolved 26:13 Resources 18:11;19:11;144:7,9, 12,13,22 respectful 9:7 respond 25:1,11;26:11;33:2 response 3:8;33:5;73:6 responsibility 141:9 responsible 26:10 rest 78:16 restored 122:13 restrictions 52:20,21;53:1;54:1,3 resume 72:10,17 return 71:12,15;115:17 review 115:14 revisit 130:17 rich 100:15 richest 143:18 rider 15:9 right (35) 21:18;22:21;23:1,7, 9,18;24:3,4;29:15; 30:17,23;31:2;36:5,8; 45:8;70:18;75:9;78:7; 80:3;90:5;107:5; 108:10;109:13,21; 110:16;112:15;115:6; 119:21;120:18;125:6, 18;127:14;129:21; 130:10;133:2 right-hand 105:5 rights 55:4 rise 77:5 risk (10) 9:23;10:10,12,13,15, 19,20;130:19;131:3; 142:4 risks 65:13;66:2;131:6 rivalry 128:17 Road 26:23;33:17;45:4; 69:1;127:18;146:3 roads 9:23;10:12,21 Robert 71:23;72:14 Rock (20) 17:6;28:21,23;29:7; 55:10,16;56:10,16,16; 57:4,6;75:21;76:3; 90:12,20;100:16; 101:2;103:17;124:22; 132:3 rocks 29:12,13,13,17;88:7; 112:14 Rocky 89:15 role 43:4 roll 3:6 roll-up 95:13 Ron 26:22;134:9 room 33:13;139:20;147:11 roughly 48:5;105:7,8,9 Route 77:12 row 33:7,8;39:5 royalties 69:19,20 royalty 54:23;55:2,3 RT 139:9 RUDOLPH (95) 3:4,11,12,21;4:23; 6:11,16,19;14:3;15:20; 16:11,18;17:15;18:5; 20:4,8,13,17;21:2,6,16; 22:12,22;23:4,7,13,17; 26:19;27:1;31:17;33:8, 12,15;38:23;39:4,13; 40:9;43:7,10,17;45:2, 7;51:6;57:21;62:13; 68:15,18,22;71:8;72:8, 16;73:4;80:9,19;81:4; 84:2,10,17;85:3;86:21; 88:23;92:16,21;94:13; 98:21;101:23;104:5, 12;112:19;113:7; 114:16;115:1,23; 116:8,15;120:16,20; 127:15;133:5;134:8; 136:22;137:10,20; 138:8,12,18;139:6,11; 145:12,14,21;146:2; 147:3,6,8 rules 22:9;54:5;66:15; 67:9;71:20 ruling 14:6,8 run (24) 7:2,23;11:2;24:12; 26:14;31:8,8,10;39:15; 45:10,16,20;46:2,8,12; 47:1,6;50:4,6,8;57:1; Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (14) reality - run ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 140:1;141:12;145:11 rundown 72:17 running 10:5 rupture 108:18;111:2;112:1 rural 34:15 S safe 41:18;42:5;82:3,5 safeguards 142:2 safer 10:21,22,23 safety 33:20,20;34:11; 68:11;120:7;145:4 Sally 3:11;138:14 salt (20) 8:19,22;12:14,16; 14:19;16:3;17:4;80:4; 87:5,6,7,20;88:1,4,11; 99:17;100:20;103:5,9, 23 same 5:5;38:9;58:17;83:2, 3;86:14;100:14;139:19 sample 75:13 sand 78:13;109:11 Sandstone 80:6;88:16,19;93:21 sandstones 56:12;91:11;132:15 Sangamon 7:15,18,20;8:3 saved 30:22 saw 23:8;26:21 saying (11) 42:2;51:20;57:5; 109:16;111:6;115:1,2; 120:11;121:11;122:4; 146:13 scale 101:9;107:8;118:13, 17,18,20;119:14 SCHROEER (13) 20:6,6,10,11,15,19; 21:3,4,8,18;22:21;23:1, 5 S-C-H-R-O-E-E-R 20:16 Science 108:3 scientist 129:8 screen 78:21;136:11 second 20:1;74:8;77:11; 83:5;117:22 secondary 110:17;114:9 secretary 3:6 section 58:7;59:5;78:14; 85:19;122:21 securing 98:7 sediment 108:12;126:23 sediments (10) 76:16,22;91:4; 104:17,23;108:22; 109:4,14,18;112:3 seeing 71:9;105:1;128:10 seem 128:22 seems 11:15;31:5 seep 124:9 seismic 45:11,16;94:6; 108:17 select 12:12 self 140:20 sell 67:22 sense 13:18;120:8;143:4 sentence 139:8 September 22:5;31:15 series 79:17;90:22 serious 63:21;65:16;66:5,9; 67:7 serve 139:16 served 72:22,23 service 142:19 serving 114:8 session 27:3;69:13,15 set 25:15;34:4,5;35:10; 38:16;52:17;67:10; 70:18;92:10 several (11) 12:11;25:2,9;33:19; 34:2,16;47:23;76:12; 89:11;108:14;125:22 Shale 46:14;100:8,10,13, 15,15,17,18;101:8 shales 56:11;91:6,12 shallow (11) 89:3;105:12,23; 106:21;108:23;109:5, 15;119:14;126:15; 127:10;134:16 shape 128:9 share 55:5 shavings 28:21;29:7,11 short 25:11 Short-term 144:12 short-time 117:21 shot 136:11 show 36:19;60:8,10;78:9; 90:11;105:16;109:10 showed 104:15;127:23 shower 83:11,13;117:10,22; 130:21 showers 116:19,21;117:5 showing (10) 73:17;75:8,16;76:6, 11;77:16;78:18,21; 79:14,17 shown 76:8;95:9,10;105:13; 106:21 shows 58:15;100:3;115:16; 128:13;136:12 side 33:8,9;105:5 sidewalk 133:20;134:3 sidewalks 133:14,18 sign 138:16;142:9 signature 115:17 signed 71:13;137:23;138:6; 146:6 significant 90:17;96:13;111:2 signs 142:11 similar 95:14;97:9;123:15, 17 Simon 93:21 simple 9:18 single 142:5 sister 140:8 sisters 140:6 sit 61:23;111:4 site (11) 13:13;14:14;31:1,3; 34:18;69:3;80:12;90:9; 94:17;127:10;131:12 sites 30:20;44:17;69:7; 127:11 sits 5:17 situation (13) 5:16;6:6;25:13; 26:17;32:8,9,10,12,15; 33:4;35:7;59:21;111:1 situations 37:17 Six 3:21;94:20;95:3,3; 105:7 six-mile 106:1;111:12 skipped 113:16,23 slash 80:1 slick 27:17 slide 78:9;104:15;127:22 slides 81:12 slight 96:14 91:13 slowed 75:22 sludge 101:13 sludging 101:18 slurry 124:17 small 29:2;48:7;64:18; 68:6;76:18;89:22; 125:7;132:5 soaps 27:15 so-called 142:2 social 140:16 society 144:10 soil (17) 23:21;24:16;28:14; 29:9,22;30:1,7,11,13, 19,22;60:18;77:4; 124:8;134:12,14,19 soils 30:5;91:16;118:10; 132:11,13 solution 143:10 somebody 5:15;27:6;61:21 someone 5:16;32:22;133:3; 142:6 sometime 46:13 Sometimes 24:19;44:12 somewhere 10:6;30:22;78:15; 94:10;111:2 sophisticated 95:12 sorry (24) 6:20;15:20;17:17; 18:5,5,6;20:10;21:2; 22:12;52:6;53:12; 54:16;69:14;70:22; 82:9;92:21;100:12; 112:20;113:1;120:21; 123:12;128:3;139:7; 147:6 sort 6:22;11:15,17;12:7; 42:3;74:16;80:2 sorts 79:6 sounds 82:13 source (19) 55:10,11,14,16,17; 56:16;73:20;75:19,19, 21;83:19;100:16; 101:1;117:5;118:6,7; 121:21;122:10;131:2 sources 76:10;119:13;122:11 south 44:15,16;46:4;62:16; 74:7;77:13;79:4; 104:11;106:15 southeast 74:9;106:18 Southern Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (15) rundown - Southern ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 16:1;49:7,7,11; 87:13;99:19;100:4,6, 16 southwest 79:10 spacing 79:18 speak 46:7;64:3,6;141:9 speaking 50:4;121:10;141:13 special (10) 65:8;66:22;68:13; 98:11,16;120:4;140:1; 145:1,3,11 specialize 25:3,10 specific 21:20;32:20;47:21; 56:18;71:21 specifically 13:22;56:11;93:8; 113:12 spectrum 130:18 spell 20:13;23:13;27:1; 39:7;51:11;58:2;104:6; 113:7;138:21 spill 24:22;122:12 spills 9:23;10:13 spoke 113:11 spread 18:17;19:6;119:19 spreading 19:14,19;90:10; 91:15 squiggly 75:17 St 49:16;80:6;88:16,18 staff (10) 8:5,12,13;9:1;14:11, 17;84:19;88:23;92:16; 145:17 stand 17:12 standard 13:4;66:16;68:12; 97:13;98:4;117:21 standards 145:1 Stanford 74:8 start 48:12;123:13;138:14 started 89:18 starts 77:12 State (30) 6:13;8:15;11:9; 14:19;16:15;24:3,4; 34:3;35:17,17;36:2; 39:9,16;42:23;43:2; 52:14;54:6,17;60:22; 67:12;70:8;72:12,20; 73:9;74:11;97:12,17; 99:11;128:12;138:20 stated 15:10;17:1;29:17; 51:15;52:18;80:22; 81:5;144:5 statement 6:17;31:13;138:16 states (11) 11:14;13:22;15:7; 39:15;81:1,3;82:13,14; 99:21;100:5;145:2 states' 80:20 State's 5:10 statutes 52:23 step 68:10;106:11 stepped 84:13 stepping-stone 109:5;112:4 stewards 142:23 still 17:12;34:16;40:21; 65:3,5;67:4;131:15 stimulation 123:14 stipulation 38:7 stipulations 38:16 stockpile 30:23 stomach 123:16 stop 22:13;120:18 storage 40:12,16;41:11,15; 78:4;85:11 straight 77:13;105:4 strain 84:4 Stratigraphic 74:12 stream 76:16;104:17,22; 108:12,22;109:4; 126:22;131:22 Street 16:17 stress 99:5 strictly 13:15 string 34:4,9 strong 63:22 strongly 99:2 structure 75:23;78:3;85:23 studies 60:11 study 7:17;74:13;94:18; 99:23;101:8 stuff 32:14;88:7;103:1; 111:3;130:16;131:9; 134:14;135:23 SU1405 4:4 subject 146:16 subjects 96:10,12 submitted 8:13;34:6 substances 110:12 success 85:14;87:20,21 sudden 63:13 suffers 140:9 suffice 135:18 sufficient 67:15,19 sufficiently 105:21 sulfur 100:19 sum 140:15 summer 73:2 superimposed 74:4 supplies 44:13;89:3 supply 27:7;76:21;78:14; 117:10 supported 126:9 supposition 10:16 Sure 20:19;24:18;25:20; 71:13;81:9;104:19; 112:21;121:6;123:6 surface (11) 30:10;34:4,7,10; 50:16;63:14;75:5;94:2; 108:20;122:5;132:18 surrounding 110:5;121:23 surrounds 59:5;133:12 surveillance 36:23 surveilling 37:2 Survey (18) 8:16;11:10;73:10; 74:11,13;75:8,11,12, 14;100:3;101:21; 128:13,16,16,18,18,23; 129:4 surveys 34:19 Susan 40:7 suspect 99:2 swamp 77:5 swear 22:17;138:11 swearing 138:8 sworn 72:9;138:13 system 117:10;121:5 systems 73:23 T talk 68:7;87:1;116:20; 137:1;146:2 talked 93:1;94:15;113:12; 116:18,20;117:1 talking (10) 7:10;43:15;58:1; 63:16;94:5,7;96:11; 113:16;120:12;135:2 talks 101:8 tank 40:18;41:2;101:4,12, 18;117:18;119:4 tanker 9:20 tanks 40:12,16;41:11,15, 16;42:2,4;118:12,13 taught 72:20 tax 54:20,21,23;55:5 taxes 54:17 Taylor 23:11 teaches 140:2 teaching 96:9 tear 9:22;10:12 technical 54:14;132:2 technique 97:8,9 technologically 18:3 tectonic 90:3 telling 116:12 tells 58:19;82:3 temporarily 22:1 ten 5:18 tens 134:23 term 15:12,14;17:20,23, 23;132:2 T-E-R-M 17:23 terms 75:12;105:3,12; 109:13;111:6,17 terrain 131:23 test (22) 18:7;21:19;23:3; 36:14,18;37:5,19,20; 59:2;74:12;75:1,2,8; 78:3;79:12;83:7,8,17; 102:21;117:20,21,22 tested 22:11;58:7;60:5; 101:19;102:15;117:20 testified 95:7;99:4;129:5 testifies 146:16 testify 4:2;22:20;71:13; 133:3;137:23;146:14 testimony (22) 16:21,23;17:12;18:6; 21:3;31:18;65:4;72:4; 94:23;114:17,17,18; 115:3,21;116:5; 137:13,14;138:7,17,22; 146:6,10 testing (11) Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (16) southwest - testing ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 18:13;19:9,22;29:17; 36:11;55:7;59:16; 101:12;102:3;119:14, 18 tests 45:11;101:12;126:8 Texas 119:2 Thanks 45:1;133:4 theirs 117:16 Theoretically 103:4 Therefore 21:14 thermal 134:1 thin 127:1 thinking 110:1 third 30:15;74:10 though 22:15;37:15;101:19; 103:15 thought 19:12;50:14;52:8 thousand 88:11;93:20;94:8 thousands 9:20;10:3;97:11 threats 44:20,23 three 6:7;46:23;58:10; 136:8 three-dimensional 105:21 throughout 87:12 Thursday 146:7 tied 132:5 tiles 61:8;62:1 times 6:7;26:3;34:2;55:8; 81:6;83:13;100:4 timing 146:10 tiny 124:22 tired 29:5 T-norm 17:20;18:2 today 10:23 together 73:5 told 4:14;30:2,5,16 tomorrow 138:1;146:5;147:5, 10 tonight 6:6;81:5;96:11; 115:21;127:20;139:18; 146:21 tons 40:22 Toohill 79:9 tool 55:22;56:5,14;75:14 top (11) 19:15;30:19;74:23; 78:7,7,10,17;79:14; 111:3;121:21;122:4 total 52:4;140:15 totality 142:20 Towanda 72:15;76:20 Tower 69:1 town 50:10;74:6;136:4 toxic 19:4;27:19;63:22 TP 8:6,10,11 trace 55:20 tracing 107:2 tracking 97:16 Tracy 127:17 T-R-A-C-Y 127:17 tradition 139:19;140:11 traditional 51:18,19,21;52:7 transcript 69:17 transect 105:20;106:1,23; 111:12 transport 9:11 travel 103:7,15;134:18 treated 142:14 tremendous 93:19 tremor 89:18 Trinity 139:15,16 trips 9:11,12,20;10:3,5,7, 18 trouble 49:19 truck 9:10 trucked 133:21 Trucks 10:21 true (15) 7:14;8:4;12:19,21; 55:9,12,13;95:19;96:7, 22;107:9;108:12; 113:15;114:4;132:8 trust 144:14 trustees 144:7 truth 143:9,9 try 6:9;16:20 trying 26:10;31:6;49:3; 57:13;88:8;110:19; 131:15;141:14 TUESDAY 3:1 Tums 123:17 turn 4:3;17:15;20:8,9; 51:7 turned 100:1 Turner (16) 3:13,14;33:7,9; 81:22;82:9,20;87:3,10, 16,19;88:2;92:22; 93:13,17;94:4 turns 118:2 two (21) 4:14;6:7;16:3;32:22; 40:12,21;51:16;73:6; 85:18;89:18;102:6; 103:23;115:13;122:21; 126:4;129:16;136:13, 15;137:18;140:2; 142:21 two-liter 77:1 type 37:17;106:20 types 51:16;56:10;63:12; 65:21;132:10 typical 6:23;66:15;132:15; 133:22 typically (10) 7:2;9:18;33:4;44:8; 59:23;91:3,10;126:17; 132:5;134:2 typo 48:20 U ultimate 142:16 unaware 80:14;81:2;104:2 under 22:16,18;42:5;47:22; 64:15;93:19;97:7; 101:10 undergo 134:1 underground 103:7,16;121:5; 122:9 underlying 20:23;21:9 unfamiliar 101:14 Union 78:1 unique 5:21 unit 41:17,20;42:4; 133:10 United 99:21;100:5 University 72:21 unless 15:4;138:9;146:11 unpublished 107:17,18,19,22 unrelated 132:21 unusually 118:3 up (47) 3:23;4:2;5:15,17,19; 6:1,7;10:2;17:2,3,6; 19:16;22:15;25:15; 36:10;48:1;49:16; 62:20;63:9;65:17;66:6; 69:5;71:14,17;82:23; 87:4;108:21;110:4,12, 21;111:18;116:11; 118:8;119:2;122:5; 124:17;127:16;130:17; 131:22;132:5;136:6; 137:23;138:6,17; 142:1;146:6,21 updated 100:2 upon 140:19 upsets 75:23 uranium (22) 21:13,15;55:10,14, 18,19;57:10,14;83:21; 90:22;91:2,8,12,14; 113:13;116:23;119:5; 130:17;132:1,5,8,14 urge 139:23;145:10 use (34) 9:5,9;12:6;27:4,13, 15,21;41:16,18,19; 42:3,12,14;43:19;44:3; 55:21;56:4,13;68:14; 88:15;98:11,16;120:4; 123:8;129:4;130:8; 132:2;133:23;140:1; 143:12;144:9;145:1,3, 11 used (17) 27:13,15;28:2;33:2; 43:12;78:3;91:17; 117:19;123:7,14; 128:10,15,16;142:11; 144:19;146:20,21 USEPA 131:1,11 using 48:3;56:2;73:9;88:1; 107:20 usually 125:6 V vague 67:4 valorem 54:20 value 38:12,15,19,22; 143:22,23,23 values 38:8 valves 42:4 variety 72:21;74:5;76:9; 107:2 various 76:3;131:5 vary 85:22 varying 103:16 Vatican 140:14;142:15 vent 64:16,20 vented 67:17 venting Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (17) tests - venting ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 65:15;66:4 verging 120:16 versus 117:21 vertical 52:9;80:23;82:1,12; 106:12 Victor 46:21 viewed 82:3 violate 144:14 violation 22:9;31:8,23 viscosity 27:14 vision 112:21 Vista 6:15;51:10;99:14 visualize 122:19 VOCs 63:7 voice 145:9 volatile 40:23;63:7 volume 40:18 W walkway 134:6 wants 99:10 Wapella (13) 8:7;74:10;77:14,17; 79:5,10,17,22;80:12; 87:7;88:16;93:23; 96:20 warming 129:23 warrant 115:18 wash 27:16,16 Washington 16:17 waste (10) 18:16,22;19:2,3,5; 21:20;57:17;60:17; 119:18,18 wastewater 20:22;21:14;89:12 water (111) 8:20,22;11:11,15,21, 22;12:14,16,19;14:19; 16:3,4;17:4;23:21; 24:17;33:22;34:13,20, 20;35:8;36:11,12,15, 19;37:2,9,12,13,19,20, 21;41:15;43:11,19,22; 44:3,4,6,11,13,16,20; 59:4,9;60:5,7,9,12; 63:2;70:17,19;73:13, 20;75:3,4,22;76:21,22, 23;78:14,21;79:6,8,14; 80:4,5;81:11,13;83:3; 87:5,6,8,20;88:1,4,6, 11,17,18,22;89:3; 93:21;94:2;99:17; 103:6,22,23;105:12,23; 106:21;108:23;109:9; 113:21;115:14;117:10, 17;119:4;122:1,7,10; 123:11;125:17;128:12, 15,18,22,23;135:17; 136:3;141:4,17 waterflood 89:23 waterfloods 89:12 waters 109:7 way (10) 11:21;25:22;26:20; 42:8;43:9;68:1;72:15; 104:20;105:22;140:22 Wayne 115:15 ways 24:16;89:8;99:13 wealthy 142:12 wear 9:22;10:12;29:2 website 47:11,21;48:4;49:3; 73:13 week 32:22 weeks 32:22;73:6 welcome 16:10;23:18;46:20 welfare 68:11;145:5 wells (81) 7:2,15;8:2;10:5; 11:11,20;12:11,15; 13:20;14:21;15:3;16:4; 25:3;35:15;40:11; 44:15;47:17,23;48:5,9; 49:11,13,20,21;50:1,7; 52:16;59:6;63:10;67:8; 74:19,20;76:21;78:4, 22;79:7,18;80:1;81:11, 13;85:16,18;86:4;87:2, 11;90:6,15;95:8,16; 96:21;97:11;99:18; 102:7;103:22,23; 111:21;115:16;121:23; 122:1,7,21,22;124:16; 125:16,17,20,23;126:1, 2;127:13;135:15,18, 18;136:3,8,9,12,16,17, 18,19 weren't 7:23;123:6 WEST (24) 33:14,16,16;34:15; 35:1,4,9,14,19;36:1,5, 13,16,22;37:3,7,15; 38:2,6,14,20;39:2; 40:8;74:7 WETZEL (27) 6:4;47:4;51:7;92:20; 94:15,23;95:7,21;96:1, 7,17,20;97:1,6,15,23; 98:5,9,14,20;137:7,9, 11,17,19;145:20; 146:19 what's 14:9;34:4;42:15; 54:20;63:20;77:3;81:9; 128:14;130:18 white (29) 9:19;62:14,15;63:3, 6,9,16,19;64:4,8,13,21; 65:1,5,13,22;66:2,10, 19;67:6,11,18,21;68:1, 9,16,17,21;115:15 whole 6:22;24:11;81:18; 111:21;144:10 whose 38:11 wife 24:20 wild 25:3,10 wildcat 8:12 William 6:14 willing 65:16;66:5;71:2; 127:22 wish 7:13;9:9 within 25:11;33:2;34:17; 35:10;54:4;58:20; 78:23;97:11;98:3 without 25:18;26:6;102:3; 103:10;111:20;140:19; 144:9 witness 4:7,11;71:16,23; 116:10;137:9;145:19, 22;146:12 witnesses 22:17;87:12;146:12 WOJTANOWSKI (34) 26:22,22;27:2,10,18, 23;28:4,9,15,18;29:4, 15,20;30:6,14,17;31:2, 14,19;32:3,19;33:6; 134:9,9;135:2,6,12,14, 17,21;136:2,7,15,20 W-O-J-T-A-N-O-W-S-K-I 27:2;134:10 wonder 11:5;146:19 wondered 31:20;121:6;136:8,9 wondering 108:11;127:21; 129:7;134:17 words 82:2;100:20;140:23 work 64:22;73:15;101:20; 107:1;128:5 worked 50:12;61:11;115:8; 129:6;144:4 working 8:23;16:1;25:5; 112:22 works 62:7 world 143:21 worldwide 143:16 worried 118:16 worries 118:23 worry 118:13 worth 142:4 write 14:16;15:14 wrong 102:10 wrongfully 28:3 wrote 14:17;15:16 Wyoming 73:1,2 Y yard 69:8 yards 19:14 year 9:11,13;11:4;41:2; 47:19;48:6;102:18 year-long 117:21 years (16) 10:23;16:1;24:6; 25:5;50:13;72:21; 80:13;89:18;93:10; 96:9,22;102:16,21; 103:3;108:4;114:5 yellow 76:9 York 49:22 Z ZBA 71:20 zero 48:16,16,21 zircon 132:6 zone 74:23 zones 34:14 Zoning 3:4;8:5,13;98:15 zoomed 128:2 0 0022 53:15,17 0908 53:11 098 53:13,14 098-0022 53:5 1 1 (13) 8:6,11;11:2;46:15; 77:13,17,19,22;78:19, 23;79:2;139:9;145:2 1,050 46:10;86:1 10 11:17;48:22;146:10 10- 10:18 10:00 4:13 100 9:5;11:21;23:20; 24:1;78:16,22;121:21; 122:4 100,000 47:18;48:4 103 72:14 10-foot 75:3 12 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (18) verging - 12 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 21, 2014 9:10 120 9:12 125 7:2;122:3 13 10:4;40:11;59:6; 124:15 13.5 11:15 14 74:19;146:5 1400 75:2 15 11:17;78:15;108:3 150 9:21 15215 127:18 154 8:7,17 15-fold 10:18 1600 114:5 168 76:23 1720 139:9 18,000 89:19;94:7 180 10:5 19 43:9 1960 78:2 1968 50:10 1969 74:19 1973 74:20 1974 74:18 1986 49:5 1989 100:2 1996 117:19 2 2 16:22;39:12;79:9; 133:10 2,000 80:6 200 9:12;10:5;58:20; 83:13 2000 47:17 2011 22:5;31:16 2014 3:1 208 113:5 21 3:1 2200 33:16,17 226 18:13;19:22;101:22 228 18:13;19:22 22nd 147:10 2300 10:6 24 8:8,22;11:14;33:2 240 101:11 240.940C 101:16 24-hour 75:1,2 25 72:5 250 48:5 26- 10:7 28th 22:5;31:15 2D 4:6 3 30 146:14 300 58:20 302 46:22 303 39:12;133:9 306 23:11 313 6:15;51:10;99:14 332 11:3 34,000 48:17 340 48:15 340,000 48:18,19 350 26:23 356 7:16 4 4 137:3 40 16:1;50:2;78:12; 126:18 400 47:17;48:5 40-some-odd 25:5 43 16:22;72:21 45 24:6 450 45:4 474 74:23 5 50 96:22 500 36:13;76:13;121:21; 122:5,5;135:9 510 16:17 55 76:7 580 79:15,15 6 60 20:7;78:11 600 26:3;81:6 605 20:12 6116 33:16 61701 16:17 61776 72:15 68 51:2 69 51:2 7 7 51:15;147:5,11 7:00 3:2;147:7 70 143:15 702 69:1 711 62:16 7139 45:4 7th 62:18 8 8 74:20 8:00 72:6 8:15 72:7 8:25 72:7 810 40:8 84 50:20 85 78:16 850,000 73:21 86 50:19,23 9 9 77:12 9:59 147:14 907 104:11 950 86:2 960 58:22 98 53:16 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (19) 120 - 98