Document health_mcleancountyil_gov_doc_4cedda70a7

In The Matter Of: APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE 110 S.W. JEFFERSON AVE., SUITE 430 PEORIA, IL 61602 PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] [EMAIL REDACTED] Original File 10-23-14_HRG_SUE.txt Min-U-Script® with Word Index ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 1 1 BEFORE THE MCLEAN COUNTY 2 ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS 3 4 5 6 7 IN RE: Applicant of Minard 8 Oil Run Company, Bradford, 9 10 Case: SU 1405 11 12 13 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS had at the 14 hearing of the above-entitled cause, taken 15 before Sue A. Phelps, C.S.R. License No. 16 84-002707, a Certified Shorthand Reporter in 17 the State of Illinois, on the 23rd day of 18 October, 2014, at the hour of 7:00 p.m., at 19 McLean County Government Center, 115 E. 20 Washington Street, in the City of Bloomington, 21 County of McLean, State of Illinois. 22 23 Page 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 BOARD 4 Ms. Sally Rudolph, Chair Ms. Julia Turner 5 Mr. James Finnigan Mr. Brian Bangert 6 Ms. Chris Carlton Mr. Michael Kuritz 7 STAFF 8 Mr. Philip Dick, Director 9 Mr. Donald Knapp Mr. Mike Behary 10 11 Mr. William C. Wetzel, Esq. Livingston, Barger, Brandt & Schroeder 12 115 W. Jefferson Street, Suite 400 Bloomington, Illinois 61701 13 (309) 828-5281 appeared on behalf of Applicant. 14 15 16 Also Present: Mr. Jim MacFarlane 17 Mr. Robert Herr Dr. Robert Nelson 18 19 20 21 22 23 Page 3 1 INDEX 2 WITNESS PAGE 3 DR. ROBERT NELSON Mr. Finnigan 5, 11 4 Ms. Turner 9 Mr. Kuritz 10, 13 5 Mr. Dick 15 Mr. Wetzel 16 6 Dr. Rau 17 Mr. Wojtanowski 22 7 Ms. Keylin 30 8 DR. TOM PLIURA Mr. Wetzel 37 9 Ms. Rudolph 48 Ms. Turner 51 10 Mr. Kuritz 52 Mr. Finnigan 53 11 Ms. Keylin 55 Dr. Rau 59 12 Dr. West 62 13 MR. WILLIAM WETZEL Mr. Finnigan 70 14 Ms. Rudolph 72, 80 Dr. Rau 74 15 MR. JAMES MACFARLANE 16 Mr. Wetzel 81 Ms. Rudolph 89, 92 17 Mr. Finnigan 90 Mr. Carlson 94 18 Dr. West 106 Ms. Keylin 113 19 MR. ROBERT HERR 20 Mr. Wetzel 116 21 22 23 Page 4 1 MS. RUDOLPH: McLean County Zoning Board 2 of Appeals will please come to order. The 3 secretary will call the role. 4 MR. DICK: Finnigan? 5 MR. FINNIGAN: Here. 6 MR. DICK: Kuritz? 7 MR. KURITZ: Here. 8 MR. DICK: Rudolph? 9 MS. RUDOLPH: Here. 10 MR. DICK: Turner? 11 MS. TURNER: Here. 12 MR. DICK: Bangert? 13 MR. BANGERT: Here. 14 MR. DICK: Carlton? 15 MS. CARLTON: Here. 16 MS. RUDOLPH: Six members constitute a 17 quorum. We can conduct business. This is the 18 continuation of case SU 1405. I'm going to 19 deviate just a little bit from what we said 20 last night. 21 Our rules say the Zoning Board of Appeals 22 may ask for information at any time of any 23 witness. The Board members had conveyed that Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 1 - 4 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 5 1 they had some more questions they'd like to ask 2 of Dr. Nelson. So Dr. Nelson is here. He has 3 been sworn in. Would you just state your name 4 and address one more time for us. 5 DR. NELSON: Robert Nelson, 103 Marion 6 Way, Towanda, Illinois. 7 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. Questions from 8 the Board? 9 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 10 BY MR. FINNIGAN 11 Q. There's still a lot of talk about drilling and 12 the aquifer and things like this. You know, I 13 think there's just a lot of confusion about 14 that and I'd like to have a little more 15 information about what drilling has been done 16 down there and what cause it has, if there's 17 been any problems with what's been done or not 18 and that's my kind of my question. 19 I asked you that before a little bit, but 20 I'm not sure that I got an answer the way I 21 would like to it. And I don't know for sure if 22 I'm not conveying it right or what. 23 A. There have been several wells drilled in the Page 6 1 area. Some of them have been water wells. 2 Some have been petroleum exploration or 3 structure tests. Can we pull up the 4 PowerPoint? 5 MS. RUDOLPH: While Dr. Nelson is getting 6 ready excuse me, Dr. Nelson I was just 7 trying to state that when he is finished with 8 these questions any anybody, applicants, 9 objectors, anyone can ask him questions only 10 related to what he's talking about tonight. 11 THE WITNESS: Okay. This map shows the 12 distribution of previous oil wells, structure 13 tests, coal tests. So here is the proposed 14 location and there are several in the area. 15 All of the available information just 16 indicates that those wells are plugged and 17 abandoned. There's no further Well, there's 18 no information beyond that other than the 19 geology, the drilling reports and those things. 20 BY MR. FINNIGAN: 21 Q. Were those wells ever pumping wells? I mean, 22 were they 23 A. None of the wells on this illustration ever Page 7 1 produced oil. 2 Q. So they really When you abandon a well like 3 that, you pretty much close off the casing so 4 there wouldn't be a problem anyway. 5 A. That is correct. 6 Q. So are there some we can look at that are still 7 being used and how they affected things? 8 Because those really don't have any bearing on 9 what we're doing. 10 A. That's correct. We have no no wells that 11 are producing oil in McLean County. 12 Q. Well, how about you don't have any 13 information I think I asked you that 14 before on the site down at Wapella? 15 A. I have no personal information on any leakage. 16 It would require a FOIA request to the Illinois 17 EPA to determine if there's been any petroleum 18 release in the area. 19 Q. You talk about if there's a breach of a casing 20 and oil would somehow get out. Where would the 21 oil how far would the oil go away from the 22 casing? 23 A. I'm trying I'm trying to visualize At Page 8 1 different horizons you've got different 2 materials and 3 Q. Give me the worst case. 4 A. The worst case? 5 Q. Yeah. 6 A. The worst case would be probably right at the 7 surface. 8 Q. But where would the Say oil escaped. You 9 talk about hydrology and I don't know. I'm not 10 a geologist. I don't know anything about it, 11 but I don't think it moves very far or very 12 fast but what is the How does it work? 13 A. Well, if we back-up just a little bit into the 14 drilling procedure. As they're advancing the 15 hole we have drilling mud to bring the cuttings 16 up and it also supports the size of the hole. 17 In the more permeable materials, in other 18 words a sandy horizon or a porous limestone, 19 some of the drilling mud actually invades back 20 in and seals those materials. 21 And that's why you have to In other 22 words, if you're going to produce an oil well, 23 you have to go down and stimulate it because Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 5 - 8 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 9 1 you've actually blocked up the avenues along 2 the well. So in addition to the cement job you 3 also have what's called the mud cake and the 4 mud invasion to help protect. 5 And since bentonite is one of the agents 6 of the drilling mud which is the super cork, 7 this is what they use to seal monitor wells and 8 things like this. So there's an additional 9 thing beyond just the cement seal. 10 And so I'm trying to come up with some 11 way that it would get into a horizon where it 12 could move at any perceptible speed. 13 Q. Thank you. 14 MS. RUDOLPH: So you feel it's unlikely 15 that it would move at any perceptible speed. 16 DR. NELSON: I think it's unlikely it 17 would move at a perceptible speed. 18 MS. TURNER: I have just a question on 19 the physics of all of this. 20 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 21 BY MS. TURNER 22 Q. We've been asking about if there's a fault in 23 the casing, but we're pumping the oil out of Page 10 1 this hole, right, so we're actually trying to 2 potentially suck it up out of the ground, bring 3 it up out of the ground. 4 So if it was harmed, if there was a crack 5 in it or something, would the oil naturally 6 want to come up or would it go back down to 7 where it came from? 8 A. Go back down. 9 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 10 BY MR. KURITZ 11 Q. So how close is the Wapella field to the 12 aquifer? 13 A. Based on the aquifer defined by this map it's 14 probably in the neighborhood of five miles, 15 four miles. 16 Q. So a like distance to where the O'Rourke the 17 first the one well is going to be give or 18 take a half mile or mile? 19 A. Yeah, it's a little bit shorter distance than 20 from the O'Rourke. 21 Q. It has been in existence for 40, 50 years? 22 A. In excess of 50. 23 Q. So we could file with the EPA to find out if Page 11 1 there have been any issues? 2 A. I believe that would be the way to find out 3 would be... 4 Q. I mean, because you've got 50 years of history 5 here with something very, very similar in a 6 similar location. Certainly seems to me that 7 that would be information we should have. 8 A. In all of the aquifer studies that I've heard 9 dealing with Mahomet that's never been a 10 discussion. 11 MS. RUDOLPH: Dr. Nelson, we heard some 12 discussion last night about unplugged wells in 13 Illinois. The slides you showed of the 14 locations, do you know that there are any 15 unplugged wells in McLean County? 16 DR. NELSON: All of the scout tickets, 17 the official geologic reports indicate that 18 they are plugged and abandoned. And there is a 19 plugging affidavit filed at the State Geologic 20 Survey. 21 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 22 BY MR. FINNIGAN 23 Q. I'd like to talk about the mud used around the Page 12 1 oil wells. It would seem like I mean, I've 2 been around water wells quite a bit. Is it the 3 same kind of mud they use around water wells to 4 seal it off or is it a little different? 5 A. They use the bentonite as a seal and a 6 protective cap for a plug in water wells. It's 7 a widely used product. 8 Q. So it's a similar process. They might be using 9 something later on when they make the well 10 the oil well that they wouldn't do with the 11 water well. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Is that really the only big difference? 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. Except for how you're going to set it all off 16 in concrete and all that? 17 A. Right. Well, with the water well bentonite 18 in McLean County you go down to Bradford Well 19 Supply and pick up a five-gallon bucket of 20 bentonite in either pellet or powder form and 21 you you can either slurry it or if it is in 22 a pellet form or even the powder form you can 23 pour it into the annular space to form the Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 9 - 12 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 13 1 seals. 2 With the drilling oil drilling thing, 3 it is in a different form. It comes in huge 4 bags or well, it's actually In the deep 5 wells out west they bring in a special truck 6 which is bentonite but not for something this 7 small. 8 This is going to be run just like a water 9 well operation in terms of the scale. But the 10 bentonite is part of the The drilling 11 contractor gets the best deal and Wyoming 12 Bentonite by the bag is the way to go. 13 Q. But bentonite by itself is not a toxic material 14 and is not anything that you have to worry 15 about? 16 A. No. Bentonite is as a matter of fact the 17 sealant that's recommended by both the USEPA 18 and the Illinois Environmental Protection 19 Agency. 20 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 21 BY MR. KURITZ 22 Q. It's actually a natural occurring 23 A. Yes. It's weathered volcanic ash. Page 14 1 Q. We use it in construction and we get the 2 bags we use It's the same material I 3 think that we use in bags and use it to stop 4 water leaks 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. in construction. 7 MS. RUDOLPH: In the first page of the 8 narrative that you gave us which is part of the 9 record very first sentence it says over 300 10 oil and gas wells have been built in McLean 11 County. So those are one in the same, right? 12 I mean, that's that's the total. 13 DR. NELSON: Yes. 14 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. So do you have a 15 ballpark about how many of those were drilled 16 into went through the aquifer? Just a 17 percentage or anything? 18 DR. NELSON: Probably ten percent. 19 MS. RUDOLPH: Any Board member have any 20 further questions? Any Staff member have any 21 further questions of Dr. Nelson? 22 23 Page 15 1 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 2 BY MR. DICK 3 Q. Are drilling logs available for the Wapella oil 4 wells? 5 A. Not on line. They are available at the 6 Geologic Survey. Trying to think of a fancy 7 word for it. It's in their library. They're 8 not available on line. 9 But the wells around them are, and one of 10 the reasons is that they're a productive well 11 and this is part of the proprietary component 12 of the oil business. 13 Q. So it may not be available even Since it 14 isn't on line would it be available? 15 A. It would be available for by inspection 16 on-site at the Illinois Geological Survey. 17 Q. Would it be available on-site for a person like 18 yourself? 19 A. Yes. 20 MS. RUDOLPH: Does the applicant have any 21 questions for Dr. Nelson regarding his 22 testimony this evening? 23 MR. WETZEL: Probably just one. Page 16 1 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 2 BY MR. WETZEL 3 Q. I think what I am hearing from the questions 4 that were asked of you is the risk of some 5 entry into the Mahomet aquifer if something 6 happens to this particular well that we're 7 talking about here tonight. 8 And of course that was discussed I think 9 at the first time and I can certainly 10 understand the confusion and perhaps certainly 11 the importance of a correct answer. 12 Isn't it true that your opinion was that 13 there was very, very minimal risk because of 14 the five miles or whatever significant distance 15 there is between this proposed well site and 16 the Mahomet aquifer? 17 A. That is correct. 18 Q. I have nothing else. 19 MS. RUDOLPH: Do any interested parties 20 or objectors have questions for Dr. Nelson 21 regarding his testimony this evening? Okay. 22 Please come forward. State your name and 23 address again, Dr. Rau. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 13 - 16 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 17 1 DR. RAU: It's William Rau at 313 Vista 2 Drive in Bloomington. 3 MS. RUDOLPH: We have a new reporter. I 4 think you need to slow down a little bit. 5 DR. RAU: Oh, I'm sorry. 6 MR. WETZEL: Spell your name. 7 DR. RAU: It's William Rau, R-a-u. 313 8 Vista Drive in Bloomington. 9 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 10 BY DR. RAU 11 Q. Dr. Nelson, my apology in advance. I don't 12 hear very well and I didn't pick up everything 13 you say so I might be asking you to say 14 something you probably already said. 15 I wonder if you could bring back the 16 slide that shows the abandoned oil wells in the 17 vicinity of the O'Rourke property. So about 18 how many just a ballpark on how many 19 abandoned oil wells we have in that area. 20 A. We can count them. 21 Q. That's not necessary. Just a rough ballpark 22 would be fine. 23 A. About 20. Page 18 1 Q. Twenty. About how deep were those wells 2 drilled? Just a sort of average again. 3 A. Well, let's start with those in the northwest 4 of the map. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Those went down about 850 feet and those 7 towards the south end of the map went down 8 almost 1100 feet. 9 Q. Okay. And these wells were plugged back in the 10 sixties was it? 11 A. The most recent ones were drilled in the 12 nineties. 13 Q. Okay. So it runs from the sixties through the 14 nineties. 15 A. That is correct. 16 Q. So some of the plugs are fairly new, some are 17 fairly old. 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. Isn't it true that these wells are in pretty 20 caustic brine that is very high chloride levels 21 and sodium and can be pretty hard on stuff 22 that's down there? 23 A. Not at the elevation that we're dealing with. Page 19 1 The main brine layers are well below what 2 they're looking for. 3 Q. But this water will still be pretty salty 4 though, right, when you get down 1100 feet? 5 A. It would be salty, yes. 6 Q. And so there is the possibility given the fact 7 that they're in this formation water that's 8 pretty salty and you've got old concrete plugs, 9 that there could be corrosion there in some of 10 those plugs. 11 A. Actually Okay. In addition to the concrete 12 there's the drilling mud and and the cement 13 was probably and I can't attest because I 14 don't know what the composition of the cement 15 was, but if it was a competent driller they 16 would have had a cement mix which had 17 inhibitors in it or something like this. 18 Q. But it is true that casing failures increase 19 over time. 20 A. It It seems likely, yeah. 21 Q. Okay. What my concern is Let me jump to the 22 chase here where my real concern is. It's not 23 clear to me from the questions I asked the Page 20 1 applicant on whether they're going to be 2 assuming that they run into a fair amount of 3 brine that's an unknown but if they do, 4 whether they're going to be shipping that to a 5 commercial Class 2 injection well or injecting 6 it on-site. 7 Because in their application they say 8 that they might apply for a permit to the IDNR 9 for a salt water injection well on site. So my 10 concern is this. 11 If this brine is being pumped back down 12 underground, there has been a concern expressed 13 by the Illinois EPA that that brine can find 14 its way up abandoned oil wells and reach 15 surface water and shell aquifers. So that's my 16 concern. Do I have any grounds for that 17 concern? 18 A. I think that there is a general concern in 19 southern Illinois about that. 20 Q. So it is a concern. 21 A. In southern Illinois, yeah. 22 Q. So you're qualifying it to southern Illinois. 23 A. Because we don't have any record of that here. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 17 - 20 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 21 1 Q. But then again we don't have ongoing oil 2 operations here, do we? 3 A. Right. 4 Q. So we don't have the historical track record. 5 A. No, we don't have the track record here. 6 Q. Okay. The other question I have concerns the 7 issue of the drilling mud, and I understand 8 that this will be water based drilling mud 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. as opposed to polymer based drilling mud. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Now polymer based drilling mud can be 13 problematic, right? 14 A. I don't know the mechanics of the polymers. 15 Q. It would depend on the polymers. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. The reason I'm raising this is the applicant 18 last night filed the list of drilling fluid 19 products that they'll be using, and one of them 20 is partially hydrolyzed polyacrylamide which 21 is can be quite toxic in local ecosystems. 22 And so my concern is is it possible that 23 the drilling mud could be contaminated by the Page 22 1 drilling fluid that's used that has this 2 polyacrylamide in it? 3 A. That's beyond my area of expertise. 4 Q. It's way, way beyond mine. You know, I don't 5 have a clue here, but I'm concerned over 6 something that is listed as an environmental 7 toxin that's being used in the drilling fluid 8 that will probably be I assume in pretty close 9 proximity to that mud since that's maintaining 10 the pressure balance that some contamination is 11 possible. 12 A. It's possible. 13 Q. Possible. Thank you. 14 MS. RUDOLPH: Are there any Thank you. 15 Please come forward. 16 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: Ron Wojtanowski. Spell 17 it? 18 MS. RUDOLPH: Please. 19 MR. WOJTANOWSKI: W-o-j-t-a-n-o-w-s-k-i. 20 18870 North 350 East Road, Danvers. 21 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 22 BY MR. WOJTANOWSKI 23 Q. I want to follow-up on a question that the Page 23 1 Board member asked about if there was a breach 2 in the casing and how far would the material go 3 through the soil. I asked that the other night 4 also and you said it wouldn't go far. Correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. I was thinking about my water well at home 7 today. Now I don't have a swimming pool full 8 of water at the bottom of my well, right? 9 A. No. 10 Q. It percolates through the soil I'm not an 11 expert. I don't know the word but I mean, 12 it comes from the surrounding area through the 13 soil to my well; is that correct? I mean, 14 where does the water for my well come from? 15 A. Well, I need to know where your well is. 16 Q. Well, let's say Okay. Well, let's say not 17 my well but let's say the wells of the 18 neighbors to this drill site on the O'Rourke 19 property. 20 A. Okay. Their wells come from depths that range 21 from 85 feet to 130 feet deep. 22 Q. Right. But the water that Let's say they 23 use a hundred gallons of water in a day and Page 24 1 that water needs to be replenished. Where is 2 that water coming from? 3 A. This is one of the great problems of dealing 4 with the materials in the glacial terrain. And 5 if I can back out of this I have a well in 6 my backyard. 7 And because I've asked myself that 8 question, where does my water come from, I had 9 my water analyzed for oxygen isotopes to 10 determine whether the water that I'm 11 withdrawing from my well is in our modern 12 atmospheric cycle or has it been removed from 13 the modern atmospheric cycle. 14 And the results of the oxygen analysis 15 indicate that my water is probably in the 16 neighborhood of 170,000 years old. My water is 17 from a depth of 160 feet in glacial materials. 18 Q. Okay. But that still doesn't tell me where 19 it's coming from. I mean, it's not it's not 20 static. Like I said, there's not a swimming 21 pool full of water at the bottom of my well. 22 The water is moving underground and it's coming 23 from... Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 21 - 24 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 25 1 A. Somewhere. 2 Q. Somewhere. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Can we predict where it's coming from or do we 5 know let's say Do you think it's coming 6 from 300 feet around my well or 500 feet around 7 my well or further? Can we predict that? 8 A. When they do pump tests they actually will pump 9 one well and watch the results in adjacent 10 wells. And in all of the Mahomet aquifer tests 11 the draw-down in other words You start at 12 your static water level pressure. Do you know 13 what your pressure is in your well? 14 Q. No. 15 A. But if you start to pump a well, it will affect 16 adjacent observation wells and from that you 17 can do a series of calculations to indicate the 18 capture and the amount of flow towards the 19 well. That's part of a hydraulic analysis of a 20 well and an aquifer test. 21 Since we have tight clays, hard clays 22 above our aquifers, these tests are what are 23 called confined aquifer tests and the amount of Page 26 1 material that's removed probably comes from 2 some distance. And when I say some distance, 3 40, 70, 80 feet but not radially out because 4 your aquifer has different changes. 5 The general water in the Mahomet aquifer 6 is moving towards the west. So it picks up 7 water where it is closer to the surface. 8 Several Maybe two or three, maybe four 9 counties to the east or maybe even Indiana and 10 moves very slowly through the Mahomet aquifer 11 and then is discharged over by the Illinois 12 River. 13 There are several places that There's 14 actual places it comes out. One of the ones 15 that was probably closest to your house is it 16 appears that there's a little bit of Mahomet 17 aquifer leakage at the Mackinaw River Fish and 18 Wildlife. 19 Q. Yes. I'm very familiar with that. 20 A. Okay. So in one of the deep valleys there 21 there's a spring which may be dewatering the 22 top of the Mahomet aquifer. 23 Q. So I guess what I'm driving at is you said the Page 27 1 material from the well the oil well wouldn't 2 move very far through the soil, but I was 3 thinking the water will move through the soil. 4 A. Yes. Not fast but it does move. 5 Q. It does move over time, and the neighbors' 6 wells could be a couple hundred feet from 7 from the well site or 500 feet from the well 8 site. So the material doesn't have to go to 9 their well. 10 Only the water has to go to their well, 11 and the water could pick up contaminates 12 passing through the drill site if there's a 13 breach and end up in their well. Is that a 14 feasible scenario? 15 A. Well, I could see 16 Q. You see what I'm driving at? 17 A. I see what you're driving at, but it would have 18 to be in in other words, the breach would 19 have to be in an aquifer in order for that to 20 happen. 21 Q. Right. The water would have to be going 22 through the through the material and 23 traveling to the well. To the water well. Page 28 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Yes. So I just wanted to Do we know enough 3 about the water around the O'Rourke site to 4 know where the water is coming from that is 5 feeding the neighbors' wells? 6 A. The adjacent wells water wells are being 7 produced at horizons at 85 feet and further 8 away at a horizon of 130 feet. 9 Q. Right. 10 A. Through thin sands. 11 Q. Through thin sands. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. So could the water that goes to their 14 well pass by the oil drill site 15 A. No. 16 Q. on the way to their well? 17 A. No. Because it would be moving around In 18 other words, the O'Rourke is sitting on a hill, 19 a bedrock hill and their local aquifers are off 20 on the sides of that hill. 21 Q. Okay. So there's not rain water or groundwater 22 or surface water that feeds the aquifers? 23 A. It probably does over hundreds of years. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 25 - 28 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 29 1 Q. Over hundreds of years. Umhmm. Okay. So that 2 was just my question. Whether the water could 3 go past the oil drill site and end up I 4 mean, because I'm thinking all these people in 5 different parts of the country are having 6 trouble with their wells, contamination from 7 drilling operations. 8 Well, you know, this is primarily 9 fracking and those operations are happening a 10 mile underground but yet this material is 11 reaching their wells. 12 MS. RUDOLPH: I'm sorry. You're getting 13 into testimony. 14 BY MR. WOJTANOWSKI: 15 Q. Right, right. So I was just wondering how that 16 works. How the hydrology works there. 17 A. I'm not aware of how that hydrology works. 18 Q. Okay. Thank you. 19 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. Are there any 20 others that would like to... 21 MS. KEYLIN: Margaret Keylin, 22 K-e-y-l-i-n. Downs, Illinois. 23 Page 30 1 EXAMINATION OF DR. NELSON 2 BY MS. KEYLIN 3 Q. I was wondering could small local aquifers be 4 located Well, I guess I want to know first 5 of all how deep is the Mahomet aquifer at its 6 top? 7 A. It's at elevations less than 500 feet. 8 Q. Five hundred feet. Could small local aquifers 9 be located even shallower than that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And could they possibly be in the configuration 12 of land that is in and around the well site 13 land, those small aquifers? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. They could be. So that the site is sitting on 16 bedrock and how deep is the bedrock? 17 A. About 100 feet. 18 Q. A hundred feet. And so above that though you 19 have layers of sand or clay? 20 A. Right. 21 Q. And possibly within that layering could there 22 be an aquifer, a small aquifer? That kind of 23 depth? Page 31 1 A. Not really. Based on the water well logs 2 around it and the one geophysical log did not 3 indicate any any sand horizons. 4 Q. How far does that bedrock that's 100 feet below 5 the surface extend let's say in the direction 6 toward the Mahomet aquifer? How far is it that 7 it still it's a hundred feet below the 8 surface? 9 A. We would have to drill another well to find 10 out. 11 Q. So we don't know. 12 A. We don't know. 13 Q. Okay. And within that area that is between the 14 bedrock of the O'Rourke farm and the aquifer, 15 the eastern edge of the aquifer, it's possible 16 there are shallow, small local aquifers in that 17 area. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. So anything that's slowly moving to the west 20 because that's how water moves 21 A. In the Mahomet aquifer. 22 Q. In the Mahomet aquifer. 23 A. In the other aquifers there are just lenses so Page 32 1 the water doesn't move. 2 Q. So it wouldn't be moving at all. 3 A. No. 4 Q. Is it captured on all sides by bedrock? 5 A. No. By What they are are lens shaped 6 deposits or lozenge shaped deposits. 7 Q. So they're permanently trapped and they do not 8 affect any other connection 9 A. No. 10 Q. in any way? 11 A. No. 12 Q. But they themselves, would they be able to 13 If anything was moving through that area they 14 would not be affected in any way? Like if 15 there's slow moving contaminated water from a 16 well leak it wouldn't affect them at all? 17 A. I can't say it wouldn't affect them because we 18 don't know where they are without extensive 19 drilling to define them. 20 Q. Let's say if they were in the way of in the 21 line of flow. Are they in a position where 22 they could possibly be affected by contaminated 23 water passing by? Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 29 - 32 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 33 1 A. Well, the only possibilities would be that 2 they're in the tight seals and they're not 3 connected to any of the local aquifers. 4 Q. I was wondering how do people and maybe this 5 is not a question to ask. I'm not sure. How 6 do people detect the possible presence of oil 7 underground? Is it only by drilling? 8 A. Only by drilling. 9 Q. There are no other imaging 10 A. Well, the early oil wells were drilled where 11 there were oil leaks. Natural Natural 12 leaks. 13 Q. But there's no other imaging kind of machinery 14 that would give you that picture? 15 A. How much money do you want to spend? Were you 16 the one that mentioned ground penetrating 17 radar? 18 Q. I probably did. 19 A. Okay. The GPR does not work in clay rich 20 soils. The depth, the penetration is about ten 21 feet. On the other hand our oil company, the 22 geologist that put together the prospect used 23 seismics and with incredibly expensive seismic Page 34 1 acquisitions and processing big oil companies 2 can identify oil to the depth of 25,000 feet. 3 Yes. 4 Q. If you're not able to detect oil underneath 5 except for drilling and you put a well down, 6 how do you know whether or not it's leaking way 7 down there? How is that discovered? How do we 8 know that? 9 A. To find the oil? 10 Q. Yeah. 11 A. You have to drill it, you have to 12 Q. No, not to find oil. Let's say you drill for 13 oil and there's a leak down low. How do they 14 know? 15 A. They wouldn't. 16 Q. Also Maybe you don't know this too but you 17 might. How expensive would it be to get your 18 well water tested because it seems to be up to 19 the individual to test their own water. 20 A. You'd have to find out what chemicals you want 21 to test it for. 22 Q. So you have to know that. 23 A. You have to know that. And the EPA has a list Page 35 1 of different things, but you'd have to pick and 2 choose from your list and I do not know how 3 much it costs. 4 Q. Thank you very much. 5 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. Any others who 6 would like to question Dr. Nelson? Okay. 7 Thank you very much. One more thing. There 8 were some questions that arose regarding the 9 West property and the Gher property in 10 relation to and I understand we have some 11 slides that we could show right now so let's 12 just do that right now so we can get a better 13 understanding of where these properties are. 14 We have copies of these Board members 15 have copies of these. I hope this is helpful 16 to the general public. You can see the West 17 property is directly north of the O'Rourke 18 property. 19 You can see the about 400 feet from 20 their property to the to the O'Rourke 21 property. Mr. Behary, maybe you could point 22 out those numbers. They're a little hard to 23 MR. BEHARY: Okay. This is Mr. David Page 36 1 West's property. His property is 400 feet the 2 beginning of the O'Rourke property and the 3 closest well must be at least 330 feet from a 4 leased line. 5 So it would be 730 feet from his property 6 line. I'm not for sure where his well is 7 located on this property. And this is Mr. Brad 8 Gher's property and the nearest well would be 9 330 feet from his lot line. 10 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. Thank you. 11 Mr. Wetzel, I believe we're if you are we're 12 ready to proceed. 13 MR. WETZEL: I am. Thank you very much. 14 I would ask Tom Pliura to step up and be sworn. 15 He's our first witness. 16 MS. RUDOLPH: Would you raise your right 17 hand please. 18 (witness sworn) 19 MS. RUDOLPH: State your name and 20 address and spell your name for the record. 21 DR. PLIURA: Tom Pliura, P-l-i-u-r-a. 22 My address is 8155 North 2850 East Road, 23 Ellsworth, Illinois, 61737. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Pages 33 - 36 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 37 1 MS. RUDOLPH: As we do with everyone. 2 Can you indicate your proximity to the property 3 in question. 4 DR. PLIURA: My home is north of LeRoy 5 about seven miles. I own property very close 6 to the O'Rourke property down in Dewitt County 7 and we actually own the Wapella field. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: You may proceed. 9 EXAMINATION OF DR. PLIURA 10 BY MR. WETZEL 11 Q. Dr. Pliura, you just indicated in that last 12 answer that you, quote, owned the Wapella 13 field. Would you tell this Board please what 14 the nature of your ownership is and how that 15 operates and what you know about it and some of 16 the details about that Wapella field. 17 A. Sure. My father was a physician in LeRoy back 18 in the sixties, late fifties and sixties and he 19 was good friends with the Kiley family. The 20 Kiley family, the owners of what you guys have 21 been referring to as the Wapella field. 22 It was Tom Kiley and his wife Laura Kiley 23 and then they had a son by the name of Ralph Page 38 1 Kiley. My father was a small town general 2 practitioner and took care of all of them. 3 They The parents subsequently died and left 4 the Kiley field oil field the Wapella 5 field to Ralph. 6 Ralph was a kind of a loner. He liked 7 my father very much. Long story short he 8 wanted to leave the Wapella field to my father 9 and my dad said he didn't need any more money 10 but he could leave it to to his children. 11 So the There was a will and he left 12 the put in the will that it would be left to 13 the Pliura children. Mr. Kiley Ralph Kiley 14 was shot and killed accidentally maybe on 15 purpose, I don't know down in the down at 16 the stockyards down in Kansas City in I want to 17 say it was 1971 when he was drinking and got 18 into a fight with a railroad agent down there. 19 That is the time when we inherited the 20 Wapella field. So we've owned it for in 21 excess of 40 years. 22 Q. Dr. Pliura, you and your siblings still own 23 that field today? Page 39 1 A. I do, yes. 2 Q. And can you describe for the Board please what 3 the nature of the oil extraction process is on 4 that, how many well sites there are and what 5 the extent generally of the extraction is? 6 A. Sure. There were originally 24 wells down 7 there. I'd have to look exactly, but that 8 field has pumped over four million barrels of 9 petroleum. It is one of the largest fields in 10 this particular area. 11 Obviously you get down to southern 12 Illinois there are a lot more productive 13 fields, but it's a very highly producing field 14 that has generated many, many hundreds of 15 thousands four million barrels in excess and 16 it continues to produce. 17 Obviously several of the wells have been 18 capped off. It was in a grid pattern. Several 19 of the wells have been capped off because as 20 they become less productive you can cap them 21 off and then seal them and then that makes 22 actually the other wells more productive. 23 So it continues to produce and it is I Page 40 1 might disagree with the gentleman that 2 testified. It is very close to the Mahomet 3 aquifer. I actually drilled a well myself a 4 water well down there, and the Mahomet aquifer 5 is actually on that piece of property. 6 Probably no further than 1200 feet as the 7 crow flies from there albeit small because the 8 aquifer kind of peters out right there. 9 Q. Doctor, you have been in this area for a number 10 of years; is that true? 11 A. That is true. 12 Q. The general location of this Wapella field, is 13 it similar in the sense of being out in a 14 somewhat remotely populated area and serviced 15 by township and county roads? 16 A. It is. It's in a relatively remote area. It 17 is roughly I'd say I'm just thinking off the 18 top of my head about four-mile east 19 northeast of the town of Wapella. It's 20 certainly south and west of LeRoy. 21 The closest town would be probably 22 Wapella obviously. But it's a rural rural 23 area. Not unlike many of those areas south Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (10) Pages 37 - 40 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 41 1 south of 74 in southern McLean County. 2 Q. And where there is not an oil field would it be 3 fair to say that the primary improvements or 4 work product is agricultural in nature? 5 A. That is correct. 6 Q. And is that also a characteristic it shares 7 with the subject property here that we're 8 talking about? 9 A. Yes. That's correct. I own a couple tracts of 10 property right there at the field and then 11 north of the field towards the O'Rourke 12 property. So I own 200 acres in between the 13 O'Rourke property and the field and it's 14 agriculture. 15 Q. In the area of the Wapella field has there ever 16 been a complaint or a situation where there has 17 been to your knowledge any lost production in 18 the farming operations that are near it? 19 A. To my knowledge and I can only speak for the 20 past 42 years that I'm not I'm not aware 21 of anything in the past 42 years. 22 Q. And that would be during the term of your 23 ownership interest in that. Page 42 1 A. That is correct. 2 Q. Has there ever been a fire at the Wapella field 3 to your knowledge? 4 A. When you say a buyer, a buyer of the oil rights 5 or a buyer 6 Q. No. I'm sorry. A fire. 7 A. Oh, a fire. I'm sorry. No. There has never 8 been a fire. 9 Q. And how many how many different well sites 10 are there located within that field and 11 counting that number if you would please those 12 that have been de-commissioned 13 A. Twenty-four. There were 24 wells. Now just to 14 the south I'm sorry just to the north of 15 the to the Wapella field that I own and my 16 sisters own there are some additional wells 17 that are on the property that I don't own. 18 I think there were at one point three or 19 four. There are now one or two there. But 20 they are not in the you know, not in what we 21 term the Wapella field. The Wapella field had 22 24 wells. They are capping the ones off from 23 the west side of the Wapella field which is Page 43 1 closer to the Mahomet aquifer now as they 2 become less productive. 3 Q. In connection with the road surfaces that are 4 present and in the area of the Wapella fields, 5 are they adequate to bear the burdens of the 6 transporting of that oil off from the Wapella 7 field to whatever destination it goes after 8 it's put in the tanks? 9 A. Yeah. I think no question about that. I mean, 10 been no problems in the 42 years that I'm aware 11 of. 12 Q. Would those roads be somewhat comparable in 13 character and quality and responsibility as 14 either a township or a county as far as the 15 problems and the maintenance of those roads are 16 concerned? 17 A. I believe they would be, yes. 18 Q. You talked about the Mahomet aquifer. You said 19 you were near that. Do you know if you are in 20 fact over that? 21 A. I would I know that piece of property is 22 literally over it. I probably ought to say I 23 actually filed a lawsuit down in Dewitt County Page 44 1 to stop the PCB introduction down at the at 2 the pit down there, the... 3 MR. KNAPP: Clinton landfill. 4 THE WITNESS: Clinton landfill. I 5 couldn't think of it. So I filed a lawsuit to 6 stop that because I'm a major conservationist 7 and I did not want to see that occur, but you 8 might say, well, isn't that ironic or isn't 9 that two face, but I don't I don't view 10 that I wouldn't do anything not at all. 11 I'd cut my arms off before I'd knowingly harm 12 that Mahomet aquifer. 13 And I but I You know, I'm very 14 fully very familiar with Mahomet aquifer and 15 I don't perceive that that field is at all a 16 threat. Obviously I got it kind of secondhand, 17 it was left to us, but I don't I don't 18 perceive in any way that that is harmful to the 19 Mahomet aquifer. If I perceived that, I 20 wouldn't be part of it. 21 BY MR. WETZEL: 22 Q. Do you know the approximate depth to which the 23 oil wells that are in the Wapella field go? Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (11) Pages 41 - 44 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 45 1 A. Yes. They hit oil at and I've got all the 2 logs and everything. I heard the question 3 about the logs. You can get the logs down 4 there. Anybody can get them. Just go down to 5 Champaign and you can get them. 6 They hit oil at 1100 feet down there. 7 1100 and I want to say 22 or 1115 feet. There 8 were a couple other wells when they that 9 they drilled the whole field. Of the 24 there 10 are different varying depths. They didn't all 11 go to exactly the same depth but they varied 12 between a thousand and 1100 foot. 13 Q. Have you ever been told by anybody and I 14 take it from your earlier comments you don't 15 feel this yourself that there has been any 16 negative impact on the Mahomet aquifer as a 17 result of the Wapella field and the extraction 18 of oil from it through it? 19 A. I do not. I probably should clarify. My My 20 father drilled some of those holes those dry 21 holes much to my mother's dismay that were up 22 on that screen earlier in the southern McLean 23 County area so but I again I say I'm very Page 46 1 protective of the Mahomet aquifer. 2 But to my knowledge there has never ever 3 been any any harm whatsoever to the Mahomet 4 aquifer in any way from any of those drillings. 5 If there is in any of those holes, I'm not 6 aware of it. 7 Q. Relative to the taxation of the mineral 8 interests that you have or the oil royalties 9 that you receive, is there a county tax imposed 10 on those? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And you would get a tax bill annually from I 13 guess Dewitt County? Would that be accurate? 14 A. Yeah. State tax. County tax. Federal tax. 15 Federal roof all (phonetic) property tax. Lots 16 of taxes. 17 Q. Are the taxes that you pay locally, that is to 18 Dewitt County in the form of a property tax, is 19 that calculated on the amount of oil that's 20 extracted and the royalties that you get from 21 that? 22 A. Well, and I would I'm not a tax property 23 tax expert so I I feel a little hesitant to Page 47 1 say what portion is the property tax, you know, 2 assessed. I don't know that answer, 3 Mr. Wetzel. 4 Q. Is it based though on the oil royalties that 5 are received by the owner? 6 A. I can tell you that every barrel of oil that's 7 pumped out of there there is a significant tax. 8 What I don't know is what part of that goes to 9 the state of Illinois and what part of it goes 10 to the county. I don't know that answer. What 11 part goes to the federal government. 12 Q. Just to make the record clear. I have been 13 referring to you as Dr. Pliura. Of course you 14 understand that. You said something about 15 filing a lawsuit and of course I know it, 16 perhaps other do, but you are also lawyer 17 Pliura; is that correct? 18 A. That's true. 19 MR. WETZEL: I have no more questions. 20 MS. RUDOLPH: Questions from the members 21 of the Board? I have some to start. 22 23 Page 48 1 EXAMINATION OF DR. PLIURA 2 BY MS. RUDOLPH 3 Q. So are you the sole owner? 4 A. I am not the sole owner. My sisters I 5 have it would be three sisters who are part 6 of part of the field as well. Ramona, 7 Vanessa and Doria. 8 Q. So who operates the 9 A. A company known as LaHoil Oil. LaHoil, 10 L-a-H-o-i-l. That was from the original 11 geologist who drilled the field, L.A. Harris or 12 Lloyd Harris. Lloyd Harris was the original 13 geologist that was involved in finding it. 14 Q. The reason I was asking about ownership. I'm 15 just wondering in the time that you've owned it 16 if you would if you would know for sure if 17 the EPA had ever imposed any fines on the 18 operation. Would you know? 19 A. I think I would know. I believe I would know. 20 If they did that I'd be notified. So I've 21 never been notified of that. 22 Q. So are there residents closest Are there 23 close residences to this field? Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (12) Pages 45 - 48 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 49 1 A. There is When you say close, everything is 2 relative. I would not I would I would 3 say the closest that there is a farmhouse to 4 there is probably an eighth of a mile. Not 5 like it's within 200 yards or anything like 6 that. 7 Q. So would you have any knowledge about any 8 property values being diminished in the area? 9 A. I could give you my opinion if that's what you 10 want. I mean, I've bought property down there. 11 I've I don't I purchased three tracts 12 down there and I do not believe that there have 13 been any decreases in land value. That's 14 just That's my personal opinion as a buyer 15 of land. 16 Q. I'm having a little trouble with the math of 17 the original wells. How many wells are 18 operating right now? 19 A. I would I would have to look. I'm going to 20 say I know three I believe and I'm going 21 to the best of my knowledge. They have been 22 de-commissioned or capped off so I'm 23 guessing. I haven't been down there in Page 50 1 probably five months or so but about 21. 2 Q. Has there been any vandalism in the area to 3 these wells within the area that you're aware 4 of? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Do you know whether they flare methane? 7 A. They do not. 8 Q. What about the smell? When you go down there 9 do you smell anything? 10 A. There There is not. They have enacted 11 obviously a lot of new regulations. There's a 12 lot of new EPA regulations that weren't in 13 effect even 15 years ago. 14 So each of the wells has to have a berm 15 around the well in the event that there would 16 be a leakage or a spill or whatever so it has 17 to be they're following the state and 18 federal regulations on that and probably should 19 have that. So but there are not a smell 20 down there. 21 Q. Do you know what they do with the drilling mud 22 down there? 23 A. There's no drilling mud now because the wells Page 51 1 are now in production so the drilling mud is 2 only a problem once they drill. 3 Q. What about yields? How are the yields on the 4 farmland down there? 5 A. Two hundred plus an acre Two hundred bushel 6 corn. Eighty 80-bushel soybeans. Prices 7 aren't that good this year. 8 Q. We've heard. Okay. 9 MS. RUDOLPH: Questions? 10 EXAMINATION OF DR. PLIURA 11 BY MS. TURNER 12 Q. Do you know how much salt water the wells 13 produce and what they're doing with the salt 14 water? 15 A. Well, they do they did produce salt water 16 and there were there were at one point I 17 know tanks that they had to then re-inject that 18 salt water back down into an approved section 19 of the you know, the field work came out of. 20 Those tanks are now gone. 21 So I don't I can't really answer in 22 detail what's happening now, but when they 23 drill they hit pockets of salt water and then Page 52 1 they typically would re-inject that back down 2 into where it came from. 3 Q. Do you know if there's been any problems with 4 any water wells in the area at all? Has anyone 5 come to you saying that there's been problems 6 or anything like that? 7 A. I have no knowledge in the 42 years that we've 8 owned it that there's ever been any problem. I 9 know I've I myself drilled a water well down 10 there so I'm just not aware of any anybody 11 having problems. 12 Q. Can I ask why you drilled the water well? That 13 just struck me as... 14 A. Well, I was I said I'm a conservationist so 15 we were going to make I was going to make 16 a flood some area for the water fowl because 17 as the crow flies you're not very far from 18 Clinton Lake down there and so we were going to 19 make a habitat area for water fowl on that 20 piece. 21 EXAMINATION OF DR. PLIURA 22 BY MR. KURITZ 23 Q. Do you know how deep the how deep the Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (13) Pages 49 - 52 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 53 1 casings were on those wells? 2 A. I do not. I've had that information but I 3 don't know what what the depth is. I can't 4 tell you off the top of my head. 5 EXAMINATION OF DR. PLIURA 6 BY MR. FINNIGAN 7 Q. They're proposing to do drill the well and 8 put concrete around them. Is that the same 9 process that was used down there? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And then you add another casing or your well 12 if it is produced has another layer of concrete 13 inside of it? Is that the same 14 A. That's correct. Then when they when they 15 cap that off or when they when they 16 de-commission a well I mean, there are 17 there are stringent EPA regulations as there 18 should be. You know, state and federal 19 regulations. 20 So I heard all the talk about the 21 bentonite and whatnot, but then they have to 22 they have to seal that well and then it has to 23 be inspected and it has to be then certified. Page 54 1 Q. Over the 42 years that you've owned this 2 there's not been an issue, never had a breach 3 of the well or nothing nothing like that? 4 A. Not at all. Not to my knowledge. Now I was 5 I think when I inherited that I was 12 years 6 old but, you know, after my father died soon 7 thereafter so I became very in tune with it 8 when I was about 17 years old so I'm 56. So 9 for quite a long time I've been very involved 10 in it but I haven't have no knowledge of 11 that. 12 Q. Thank you. 13 MS. RUDOLPH: Any further questions from 14 Staff? Do any interested parties or objectors 15 have questions for this witness? 16 MS. KEYLIN: Do I need to state my name 17 and everything again? 18 MS. RUDOLPH: Yes. Not only do we record 19 through these mics, that's one reason, and also 20 for the transcript. 21 MS. KEYLIN: No problem. Margaret 22 Keylin, K-e-y-l-i-n. Downs, Illinois. 23 Page 55 1 EXAMINATION OF DR. PLIURA 2 BY MS. KEYLIN 3 Q. Dr. Pliura, I was wondering. Do you know what 4 the road weight limit is on the roads near 5 those fields? 6 A. I do not. 7 Q. Also this is just Who drilled the well 8 originally? Do you know who that... 9 A. Well, it was LaHoil Oil which was LaHoil was 10 a man named Lloyd Harris. My dad My actual 11 father had been involved in in drilling what 12 they call wildcat wells. I think that's 13 probably what this is. 14 The man's name was Lloyd Harris and 15 they he was a geologist, and then they got 16 some money together and he is the entity and 17 then they formed this company after they hit. 18 Q. So if a leak or a spill would occur if it 19 would occur at your well at this point in time 20 would you be liable for it or would the LaHoil 21 Oil Company be liable for cleaning up? 22 A. I guess that Now you're talking to a lawyer 23 so, I mean, I'd sure try to get out of it. I Page 56 1 would There's a formal lease so I have no 2 question in my mind that if there was a leak 3 and a catastrophe or something, that they would 4 be naming me on the hook because I'm the 5 landowner. 6 The lease people, whoever drills, they 7 have a lease and they try to indemnify you and 8 there's language in that that they indemnify 9 you but I'm not I'm not naive enough to 10 don't think somebody wouldn't try to name me, 11 yeah. 12 Q. So more as a landowner you would be liable at 13 that point? 14 A. Well, I mean, this kind of gets into a legal 15 question but the standard leases have an 16 indemnification clause that says they'll 17 indemnify you if you're named in bla, bla, bla. 18 You know, that just basically says that 19 they're going to take any any problems like 20 that and assume the liability. So if you get 21 drawn into a lawsuit, they'll indemnify you as 22 a landowner to to pay you back. 23 So you the landowner Generally most Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (14) Pages 53 - 56 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 57 1 leases would say that. I'd have to review 2 that, but does that mean I couldn't be drawn 3 into it? No, I don't think so. 4 Q. Okay. The same kind of question is if a leak 5 or spill from your wells would contaminate 6 someone's nearby well, then would you also be 7 liable for providing drinking water to that 8 person indefinitely? 9 A. Well, I think that would be up That's a 10 legal question. You're kind of asking me to 11 speculate, but I think that if you harm 12 somebody's drinking water, yes, you could be 13 liable for that. 14 Q. And then how do you determine that the Mahomet 15 aquifer has not been affected by your well? 16 A. I was just asked my opinion and I gave it. I'm 17 not aware of First, I'm a big big pro 18 Mahomet aquifer guy so I kind of follow that 19 very closely. 20 I have no knowledge, none, zero that 21 Mahomet aquifer, you know, has been harmed in 22 any way, shape or form. Now nitrates, farming 23 hurts the Mahomet aquifer, you know, with the Page 58 1 leeching of the nitrates. A whole bunch of 2 stuff does. 3 But I'm not aware of any any damage 4 from the colleague wells or the Wapella field 5 to damage the Mahomet aquifer. None. 6 Q. Are you familiar with any tracking the way 7 they might possibly track that to determine? 8 A. When you say "they" who are you talking about 9 they? 10 Q. Whoever is looking to see if the aquifer has 11 been breached. 12 A. Well, they do studies on the Mahomet aquifer 13 all the time so there's continual research on 14 that. I mean, I'm not trying to be smart. I'm 15 just saying I'm not aware of even a single case 16 that says that there has been any harm to the 17 Mahomet aquifer for any of the literally 18 hundreds of wells that have been drilled there. 19 Whether they're gas or oil or water wells for 20 that matter. I'm just not aware of that. 21 Q. My question just was wondering how how they 22 would ever know? 23 A. Well, they do studies. They do tests, random Page 59 1 tests. They randomly drill. They do For 2 the Mahomet aquifer they test the water that 3 comes out of the aquifer. The aquifer actually 4 is depleting at a rather remarkable rate right 5 now. 6 But so they do samples. Samples of the 7 water and they test it for nitrates. They test 8 it for benzenes. They test for everything. So 9 there's an ongoing process for that. 10 Q. Thank you. 11 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 12 DR. RAU: William Rau. 313 Vista Drive. 13 EXAMINATION OF DR. PLIURA 14 BY DR. RAU 15 Q. Mr. Pliura, I have a few questions. The name 16 LaHoya (phonetic) just rings a bell for me. 17 I've gone through thousands of permits over the 18 last couple of years I mean the logs. Has 19 your company filed for any permits in the last 20 four or five years? 21 A. What company are you When you say has your 22 company 23 Q. LaHoya. LaHoya or... Page 60 1 A. I'm not LaHoil Oil Company. No. I'm the 2 landowner. 3 Q. Okay. So you are just the landowner and 4 they're the company that basically drilled 5 those wells for you. 6 A. Well, they're not. I mean, there was no LaHoil 7 Oil The guy again that originally drilled 8 the wells is a guy named Lloyd Harris. He was 9 the geologist in the original wildcat drilling. 10 After they hit they formed a company called 11 LaHoil Oil. 12 Q. Okay. Again my hearing's not good. Did I hear 13 you say that you own 200 acres near the 14 A. I said I owned 200 acres between the O'Rourke 15 property and the Wapella field, yes. 16 Q. Okay. So is it fair to say that you may be 17 before this Board for a special use permit to 18 develop or to explore for oil on that 19 200 acres? 20 A. Probably not. No. No. That's not fair to 21 say. 22 Q. If there's oil there? 23 A. Well, I know there's not oil there because they Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (15) Pages 57 - 60 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 61 1 already drilled on that. 2 Q. That's true of a lot of areas in the state and 3 they're finding oil at deeper levels so 4 wouldn't you want to explore for oil down in 5 the deeper level? 6 A. Do I want to? No. I'm not an oil driller 7 right now. I'm not I'm just here I was 8 asked to come up because apparently there were 9 questions about who owned that Wapella field so 10 I came up. I don't have a dog in this fight. 11 Q. But you are making money off oil on your 12 property. 13 A. Yes, I am. 14 Q. And I assume that like a lot of people if you 15 could make some more money on other land you 16 would be quite happy to do so. 17 A. I'm always happy to make money. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Nothing wrong with that. I'm a republican. 20 Q. I share that sentiment completely. I'm just 21 asking the question that it would seem to be 22 that if I owned land and it possibly had oil on 23 it, I would want that developed. Page 62 1 A. Okay. I don't disagree or agree. It seemed 2 like you're making a statement what's in your 3 head but 4 Q. I'm asking a question because it would seem to 5 me that you might have a financial interest in 6 the outcome of the special use permit. 7 A. I don't have any special use permit. I haven't 8 applied for anything here. I just came up 9 to Somebody asked me if I owned that and I 10 said yes and here I am. I'm not applying for 11 any special use permit. 12 Q. Well, thanks for your honesty. 13 A. Thank you. 14 MS. RUDOLPH: Any others? 15 DR. WEST: David West. 6116 North 2200 16 East Road, Downs, Illinois. 17 EXAMINATION OF DR. PLIURA 18 BY DR. WEST 19 Q. Tom, I just wanted to ask you a couple 20 questions. I don't know if you saw the map 21 that they had presented with the property. My 22 property is one of the properties in question. 23 By their schematics my home will be Page 63 1 approximately 700 feet from an oil drilling 2 rig. I know I've been by your wonderful 3 property. I'll just give you this. I live 4 here (indicating). Potential oil drilling site 5 is with the blue circle and the arrow. 6 And again I've been by your wonderful 7 property out in LeRoy. If this was your 8 property that they were going to drill 700 feet 9 from, would you be actively fighting against 10 Minard Run Oil in order to stop that? 11 A. I certainly may may choose to do that or I 12 may not. I probably personally wouldn't just 13 because I'm It would be tremendously 14 hypocritical of me to do that, but I I'm a 15 good friend of yours. Close friend. 16 And I do not in any way criticize you if 17 you don't want that well near your property. 18 Anymore than if somebody was going to put a hog 19 farm right there. I wouldn't I wouldn't 20 I wouldn't feel in any way that you were doing 21 something you shouldn't do. 22 Because whether it's a hog farm or a 23 cattle farm or whatever, I think landowners Page 64 1 should have the right to come in a public forum 2 like this and give your opposition. That's 3 In Russia they shoot you if you do this. Raise 4 your hand and oppose something, you get shot. 5 We don't live that way here in the United 6 States. So I'm all for you. If you oppose 7 this, so be it. 8 Q. You would actively fight as well as I am. 9 A. Like I say, I would People that know me I 10 get involved in stuff and I do vigorously 11 oppose things. I probably wouldn't oppose this 12 particular project just because, you know, I'm 13 an oil guy actually. 14 But I do not at all criticize you. 15 You're a good friend of mine. So I think it's 16 your right to oppose this. 17 Q. Would you be concerned about your family's 18 drinking water if that was your property? 19 A. I certainly would be, sure. 20 Q. Would you be concerned that the property 21 value's going to fall if that 22 A. If I believed that that was going to drop my 23 property value, I would be concerned about Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (16) Pages 61 - 64 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 65 1 that. If that was a concern of mine I would 2 voice that concern publicly. If that was my 3 worry I would I would voice it and I 4 wouldn't in any way keep quiet about it. I 5 would get on top of the courthouse and yell 6 about it because that's our right here in the 7 United States. 8 Q. Thank you, Tom. 9 A. Thank you. 10 MS. RUDOLPH: Anyone else? Okay. Thank 11 you, Dr. Pliura. 12 MR. WETZEL: Thank you. I'm going to 13 probably get a little bit off protocol here, 14 but actually I would like to take about five 15 minutes to testify myself about some parts of 16 some testimony that was presented and some 17 actions that I took today that I think might 18 appropriately be presented as a part of this 19 record. 20 MS. RUDOLPH: I don't think we I don't 21 think we swore you in in the beginning so we 22 can now. 23 (witness sworn) Page 66 1 MS. RUDOLPH: State your name and 2 address. 3 MR. WETZEL: My name is William C. 4 Wetzel, W-e-t-z-e-l. My office address is 115 5 West Jefferson Street excuse me. Yes. 115 6 West Jefferson Street, Suite 400, Bloomington. 7 As the record reflects I am the attorney 8 for the petitioner in this matter and have been 9 involved and present for all the hearings that 10 took place. 11 There were some comments made last night 12 by one of the witnesses that indicated that 13 that witness thought that maybe DNR was 14 understaffed, that there was an inability to 15 monitor and to take care and to supervise and 16 to carry out the responsibilities of that state 17 agency. 18 And at the time actually I kind of 19 flinched when that was said because I don't 20 always take to criticizing people who have jobs 21 and have responsibilities and maybe don't 22 always get them done as quickly as I might want 23 to do but that's personal to me. Page 67 1 Having said that, this morning at 8:30 I 2 got on the phone and I called down there and 3 asked to speak to someone. I got a general 4 operator and she asked what I wanted and I told 5 her, and I got assigned to a different number 6 and then indicated I was trying to get some 7 history on the actually on the Wapella 8 project because that was a project I knew was 9 in place and had a track record and a history. 10 At the time I did that or undertook this 11 task I had not spoken with Tom Pliura. I 12 learned later in the day today that Tom was a 13 co-owner. He graciously appeared agreed to 14 appear and did appear and testify here just 15 previously to me. 16 I came into contact with a very welcoming 17 gentleman who works in the Enforcement Division 18 of EPA. I indicated to him that I was in the 19 midst of a contested hearing in McLean County 20 and that I was curious as to what kind of 21 capacity they had to provide service and carry 22 out their responsibilities. 23 I asked him if I could get access to the Page 68 1 records of the Wapella project, and he assured 2 me that those records were available. He 3 directed me to submit a FOIA request, a Freedom 4 of Information Act request. 5 Those of you who are not in that arena, 6 that's a statute that permits anybody frankly 7 for some limited purposes you can't do it 8 for commercial purposes but to get 9 information from public bodies. It's a good 10 thing. 11 They can get Phil and Mike's records out 12 of the Building & Zoning and they can get other 13 records. Anyway, it's a very good process. It 14 exposes and makes available the records of 15 those agencies and entities to the public. 16 I got in the mail excuse me. I got an 17 e-mail from EPA excuse me DNR this 18 afternoon in which I obtained a raft of 19 information not so much and this all relates 20 to the situation in Wapella. 21 It is instructive and I didn't pay any 22 attention to it because it's not the subject of 23 our case here tonight and the previous and Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (17) Pages 65 - 68 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 69 1 other nights if we're going to have more. But 2 I did do that and I did want to speak, and I do 3 want to tender this as an exhibit in this 4 matter to show that don't short-sell the 5 DNR. 6 This is a group that has responsibilities 7 and I think carries them out as well as it can, 8 and it would not be fair for anyone to assume 9 that they will not carry those responsibilities 10 out. 11 I do not think my effort this morning 12 Well, I don't think he treated me any 13 differently than anybody else that would have 14 called. I indicated who I was and why I wanted 15 the information. He suggested I file a FOIA 16 request which I could do electronically. 17 I did do that and he provided this 18 information and said other copies would be 19 available, and I I would just like to make 20 the statement that I just made. I think it's 21 important not only for this particular agency 22 but all of them. 23 People work hard to do what they're Page 70 1 supposed to do, and it would not be fair in my 2 opinion to consider any lack of ability to 3 carry out the rules and regulations and the 4 laws that are the responsibilities of either 5 EPA or DNR or anybody else. I think I owe it 6 to those folks to do that. 7 Mike or whatever I've got a copy 8 here I can tender. With that I'll expose 9 myself to cross-examination. 10 MS. RUDOLPH: Questions from members of 11 the Board? 12 EXAMINATION OF MR. WETZEL 13 BY MR. FINNIGAN 14 Q. What did the report say? 15 A. Honestly I ran out of time. I was more 16 interested in getting the report and making the 17 statement I did than I was the content of it 18 because it had to do with Wapella. 19 I can say that in the course of my 20 discussion with the individual with whom I was 21 dealing I said, you know, is there anything in 22 there that you are aware of that would cause 23 some great concern. He says oh, no. He said Page 71 1 it's reflective of our activities. 2 I would say there are I did look 3 casually at it. Casually is probably the wrong 4 word because This has been kind of a hairy 5 day for me. I did what I just talked about 6 with DNR and I contacted Tom Pliura after I 7 learned his interest in the Wapella project so 8 my focus was a little bit distracted at some 9 level. 10 I saw several matters that were you 11 know, we had to do this or we had to do that 12 and it was clear to me that DNR was doing what 13 it was supposed to do. 14 If there was something wrong, they went 15 to the site and they as I remember one thing 16 that I kind of noticed just because it had kind 17 of intrigued me. 18 There was a failure to remove a pole when 19 they de-commissioned a well. And I What in 20 the world has that got to do with it? Well, as 21 you flipped the page it was a well it was a 22 pole that provided electric energy to use in 23 connection with the drilling operation. Page 72 1 The pole was removed. The excuse was 2 It made sense to me. But the excuse was we 3 thought the power company would remove the 4 pole. So they de-commissioned it all in 5 accordance with and then out comes in this 6 case DNR. They check it to make sure it's done 7 properly and they say there's a pole there. It 8 shouldn't be there. 9 You know, again it shows that they are 10 participating actively in the de-commissioning 11 process. They maintain adequate records. They 12 are as far as I can tell responsive. 13 EXAMINATION OF MR. WETZEL 14 BY MS. RUDOLPH 15 Q. Did you ask any specific questions about 16 staffing levels such as ten years ago compared 17 to now or anything like that? 18 A. I did not. I can tell you that in connection 19 with the comment that was made last night I was 20 told that at one point there was a 21 significant or had been a significant 22 reduction in the staffing level at DNR but that 23 actually if you counted the numbers you would Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (18) Pages 69 - 72 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 73 1 find that level is increasing currently. I do 2 not have any personal knowledge at all. I do 3 not. 4 Q. I don't either. However, you know, you have 5 to it comes into your consciousness that the 6 State of Illinois is in very bad financial 7 shape and we close prisons and we close 8 developmental disability facilities in 9 Jacksonville for example, and so to me it's 10 logical that we cut everywhere but I have no 11 knowledge of that. 12 A. I would be surprised if they hadn't made some 13 cuts. My point I think hopefully that I'm 14 making here is that even with cuts there are 15 responsible, responsive people within that 16 department who are doing what they are charged 17 and tasked with doing and work with in my 18 case I would count myself as part of the public 19 and I just thought it was important to say 20 that. 21 MS. RUDOLPH: Any further questions from 22 members of the Board? Any questions from 23 Staff? Do any interested parties have Page 74 1 questions for Mr. Wexler? 2 MR. RAU: William Rau. 3 EXAMINATION OF MR. WETZEL 4 BY DR. RAU 5 Q. Mr. Wetzel, I'd just like to ask you what are 6 the if you look at a regulatory agency, the 7 extent to which they can function is predicated 8 on sanctions that they have that can exceed 9 violating rules. 10 So the question I have. What are the 11 sanctions available to the IDNR under Part 240 12 of the Illinois Oil and Gas Act? 13 A. You mean 14 Q. What are the fines? What are the criminal 15 penalties? 16 A. Well, I presume that there would be 17 differentiation in the fines and the penalties 18 based upon the nature of whatever breach or 19 whatever violation occurred. 20 Q. Take the smallest little violation. What's the 21 fine? 22 A. I have no idea. 23 Q. I can tell you what it is. It's zero. There Page 75 1 are no fines. 2 A. I have no idea. 3 Q. Okay. There are no fines. 4 A. Is there a statute that provides that? 5 Q. Yes. It's Part 240 of the Illinois Oil and Gas 6 Act. 7 A. Okay. That seems probably a legislative effort 8 should be made to change that. 9 Q. I'm sorry, sir? 10 A. Perhaps a legislative effort to change that 11 should be made. 12 Q. That would be nice. In the meantime what are 13 the Let's say that someone violates the 14 casing standards in the law. They cut corners 15 like British Petroleum did on casing cement and 16 11 guys died. 17 Now we know that there's not a pressure 18 problem for wells at this depth here, but we 19 still have the issue of leaking from poor 20 casing. What fine could be established? Are 21 there any manslaughter charges that are 22 possible for willful negligence which is what 23 BP was charged for? Could an oil company in Page 76 1 Illinois face that issue? 2 A. Well 3 Q. Under the Part 240 of the law. 4 A. Well, I think if somehow or other whatever 5 the event was Manslaughter is a defined 6 crime under the Criminal Code of the State of 7 Illinois, and it would be the responsibility of 8 the State's Attorney to prosecute a defendant 9 or defendants for manslaughter. 10 I don't think DNR would probably have a 11 system that would be able to try somebody for 12 violating the 13 Q. Okay. Let me back up a little bit. I'll get a 14 little closer to the issue here. Under Part 15 245 which is the Illinois the Hydraulic 16 Fracturing Regulatory Act illegal dumping is 17 I'm trying to remember whether it's a Class 3 18 or Class 4 felony but it's one of those 19 charges. 20 Perjury on a permit is a felony as well. 21 Are there any felony charges under Part 240? 22 A. Again you're talking about When you start 23 talking about felonies you're talking about Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (19) Pages 73 - 76 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 77 1 criminal law. 2 Q. Well, it's right in the law it's right in 3 the rules and it's in the in PA98-022. 4 Those penalties are stated right in the law. 5 A. Is there a procedure to prosecute somebody 6 within that law? 7 Q. Hopefully the rules that emerge would have that 8 in there and it would be it would state that 9 such issues would be or shall be referred to 10 the appropriate attorney. 11 A. Well, I know 12 Q. That's how a good set of rules would look. 13 A. Well, Mr. Knapp is here and he works for the 14 State's Attorney's office and is counsel for 15 this Board and I would defer. 16 My My opinion is that if something is 17 classified as a felony, it would be prosecuted 18 in the state court at the site of the crime, 19 that's where the venue is if you will, by the 20 State's Attorney or whatever. 21 But it would be presented to a judge who 22 is so far as I know the only one who could 23 convict someone, a jury and the judge could Page 78 1 convict somebody of a felony. 2 Q. Correct. But the referral would come from IDNR 3 per their regulations and rules. And if there 4 is no rule or regulation specifying this course 5 of action it doesn't happen, does it? 6 A. Well, I don't know what you mean. If somebody 7 called the State's Attorney's office and said 8 that somebody else committed a felony and then 9 they described what had happened and it was in 10 fact arguably a felony under the Criminal Code, 11 then I would certainly expect the State's 12 Attorney to prosecute the alleged felon. That 13 is the responsibility of that office. 14 MS. RUDOLPH: I think we're getting kind 15 of far-a-field here, Dr. Rau. 16 BY DR. RAU: 17 Q. Okay. The issue here is you're arguing that 18 the IDNR is doing a responsible job and I 19 believe they are too with a staff of probably 20 around 12 to 15 inspectors which has been cut I 21 think around 50 percent due to budget cuts. 22 A. Is that a question? 23 Q. No. What I'm saying is you seem to give Page 79 1 everyone the impression 2 MS. RUDOLPH: You know what. No. That's 3 testimony. 4 BY DR. RAU: 5 Q. Okay. The issue is whether the IDNR can do a 6 good job and the question is what's their 7 staffing? 8 A. I have no idea. I know they answered the 9 phone. I know I was transferred through two 10 sessions. I know I was put in contact after I 11 described what I wanted with an individual who 12 agreed to help me and he did. 13 Q. But you don't know what the staffing is though. 14 A. Oh, no, I don't have any idea. 15 Q. So how can you say they're doing a responsible 16 job when you don't know whether they have 17 A. I did not say that. I said that they did a 18 responsible job in responding to my inquiry, 19 and I said that because I thought it should be 20 said. 21 Q. Well, I'll stop there, sir, but I know that we 22 have attempted to contact the agency many times 23 and we don't get we can't even get through. Page 80 1 Maybe lawyers do better. 2 A. Maybe. I don't know anything about that. 3 EXAMINATION OF MR. WETZEL 4 BY MS. RUDOLPH 5 Q. I do have a follow-up since we're on the 6 subject of fines. It did come up that Minard 7 Run had been fined for something minor or 8 something we heard. I don't know when we heard 9 that. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? 10 What do you know about that? 11 A. I know a lot about it and certainly we intend 12 to address that. I don't think 13 Q. If you're going to address it later that's 14 fine. 15 A. Yes, we are going to address it. Yes. 16 Q. We'll come back to that. 17 MS. RUDOLPH: Anyone else that would like 18 to question Mr. Wetzel? Okay. So continue. 19 MR. WETZEL: I'm free? 20 MS. RUDOLPH: Yes. For awhile. 21 MR. WETZEL: We would recall Jim here on 22 my right. We can get into this question about 23 the alleged activities. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (20) Pages 77 - 80 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 81 1 EXAMINATION OF MR. MACFARLANE 2 BY MR. WETZEL 3 Q. For the record would you state your name and 4 address please. 5 A. My name is James MacFarlane. 6 M-a-c-F-a-r-l-a-n-e. 7 MS. RUDOLPH: For the record I'm sure 8 we Mr. MacFarlane was sworn in 9 MR. WETZEL: He was. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am. 11 BY MR. WETZEL: 12 Q. And you recognize the oath you took continues. 13 You are still bound by that. 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Mr. MacFarlane, you were here, were you not, 16 when an exhibit was admitted yesterday and 17 presented into this record, were you not? 18 A. Yes, I was. 19 Q. And did that relate to a letter that came from 20 and over the signature of the United States 21 Environmental Protection Agency? 22 A. Yes, it was. 23 Q. And after the hearing did you have an Page 82 1 opportunity to review the material that had 2 been submitted in connection with that 3 particular issue? 4 A. Yes, I was. 5 Q. And do you have of your own personal knowledge 6 an explanation for what that was and what the 7 disposition of that was? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. Okay. Would you please articulate that to this 10 Board. 11 A. The letter came through the DEP and the EPA to 12 Minard Run and the cause was the letter was 13 written to make that we had an illegal 14 discharge at a water treatment facility that we 15 operate and that we'd be that we may be also 16 taking Marseilles produced fluid from from 17 this into our facility. 18 At that time we responded to both the DEP 19 and the EPA and through this cleared up any 20 of that statement that that did not happen 21 with, first, taking any Marseilles water 22 because our permit with the EPA clearly states 23 that only the produced water from our facility Page 83 1 of wells that is connected to this water 2 treatment plant took that that's all we were 3 allowed to take and that's all we ever take. 4 And we went into discussion further and 5 through documentation to and fro and the 6 conversations with the EPA that this issue was 7 cleared up and that we never did take 8 Marseilles well Marseilles shale water and 9 also that we had 10 Through a couple actions there was a 11 sample that was sent to a lab that was 12 diagnosed. When they were doing the testing 13 they had the wrong parameters, and then there 14 was an administrative number that was put in 15 there that was incorrect from the data. 16 And then one the discharge that was 17 greater than the amount that was allowable was 18 through a freeze-up of a facility and it's a 19 very cold day in winter. And through all of 20 this the with the EPA nothing came away 21 fine through the EPA and nothing we were 22 charged with nothing. 23 Q. Mr. MacFarlane, I'm going to show you a letter Page 84 1 that I will tender as an exhibit here and it's 2 dated August 15, 2013. It's on the letterhead 3 of the United States Environmental Protection 4 Agency and I'm indicates at the bottom that 5 you received a copy of it. 6 Could you explain to the Board what that 7 letter is about please? 8 A. This letter is from the EPA. A certified mail 9 letter to our president of the company, 10 administrative order, and enclosing the that 11 the EPA has completed its review with the 12 occupant above and subsequently nothing came of 13 it, and therefore the above referenced AO in 14 Section 308 Request For Information are 15 officially closed. So that was a certified... 16 Q. I would ask you, Mr. MacFarlane, if that letter 17 was the last correspondence that your company 18 received following the initial reference doc 19 number; is that true? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. And did your company did the oil company pay 22 any fines, any penalties? Were there any 23 matters that were not resolved to the Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (21) Pages 81 - 84 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 85 1 satisfaction of the United States Environmental 2 Protection Agency regarding that particular 3 matter? 4 A. Yes, sir. There were not any fines. 5 Q. And that matter I assume was then settled and 6 remains settled to this day. 7 A. Yes. 8 MR. WETZEL: I have nothing else on that 9 subject. I could go to another subject or we 10 could open this up if that's the best way to do 11 it. 12 MS. RUDOLPH: Let's wait till the 13 conclusion of Mr. MacFarlane. 14 BY MR. WETZEL: 15 Q. When you testified days are running 16 together last night or the night before and 17 I believe it was the night before. 18 But in any event the question about well 19 water for human consumption on adjacent 20 properties was raised, and you had some 21 recollections and gave some testimony regarding 22 that; is that correct? 23 A. Yes, sir. Page 86 1 Q. And after that particular evening of 2 presentation did you have occasion to go back 3 and to look at the actual lease between Minard 4 Run Oil and the current landowner, the 5 landowner with who you have a lease? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And did you then remember or realize that there 8 was a provision in that lease that addressed 9 the issue of water wells? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. I'm going to show you what I will again offer 12 as an exhibit. It's a page off the last page 13 of the lease itself. Would you read please for 14 the benefit of the Board here the middle 15 paragraph under the heading Additional Items? 16 A. Yes, sir. It states in Additional Items in the 17 event that lessee drills an oil and/or gas well 18 upon the herein described lands that is within 19 1,000 feet of a then existing in use water 20 well, then in that event lessee agrees to have 21 the water from said well tested by by a 22 qualified water testing company once before and 23 once after the completion of drilling Page 87 1 operations and to provide a copy of the results 2 of said test to the owner of the well. 3 Q. And is that the intent of the Minard Run Oil 4 Company and in fact is that its contractual 5 obligation regarding oil regarding water 6 wells? 7 A. You are correct. 8 Q. Mr. MacFarlane, I'm going to show you what 9 perhaps has been already admitted as an 10 exhibit, but in any event we can re-admit it if 11 it was and I think it certainly has been 12 referred to. 13 That is the State of Illinois Department 14 of Natural Resources permit to drill in or 15 operate a well. Have I placed that in front of 16 you right now? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And is that the permit that was issued by the 19 State of Illinois by the Department of Natural 20 Resources that authorizes its authority to 21 authorize you, your company Minard Run Oil 22 Company, to drill at the O'Rourke site? 23 A. Yes, sir. Page 88 1 Q. And that is bears number 063906? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. And it's dated 8-20-2014? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. Look if you would at the bottom of that 6 particular permit, and I'm going to ask you to 7 look at the middle paragraph at the bottom that 8 starts the first two words of which are this 9 permit. Would you read those please? 10 A. Yes, sir. This permit is conditioned upon 11 compliance with the requirements of the 12 Illinois Oil and Gas Act and the implementing 13 regulations and authorizations of drilling and 14 operation of the above-described well. 15 Q. Is it your belief and that of your company that 16 this paragraph obligates you and your company 17 to comply with the requirements of the Illinois 18 Oil and Gas Act? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. And further that if you fail to do that that 21 this permit would be voidable? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 MR. WETZEL: I have no more questions. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (22) Pages 85 - 88 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 89 1 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. Questions from 2 members of the Board? 3 EXAMINATION OF MR. MACFARLANE 4 BY MS. RUDOLPH 5 Q. Mr. MacFarlane, you testified regarding this 6 one incident and we have the documentation that 7 it was cleared up. Were there any other 8 instances where you were declared in violation 9 and fined or any any others? We know about 10 this one. 11 A. There may be and there have been throughout the 12 years and this I mean, it's part of doing 13 It happens in industry. We are highly 14 regulated and in we are highly 15 inspected and mistakes do happen. 16 All of our mistakes have been very, very 17 minor. Some of them may be just administrative 18 mistakes in documentation. 19 Q. Just give me an idea. In a five-year period 20 what kind of fines might they have imposed on 21 you just in dollars? Any idea? 22 A. Sometimes they're I would say four, $500.00. 23 Something like that. Page 90 1 Q. Per year? 2 A. No, not on a per year basis. No, we don't get 3 them yearly. 4 Q. Okay. So since you mentioned that that 5 is highly regulated, what's been 6 your experience with Illinois so far? 7 A. With our With our short term here we haven't 8 really got into the multiple well production 9 phase, but during the drilling we have they 10 came out and inspect our wells during drilling. 11 And Mr. Herr has overseen our drilling 12 and plugging and he can contest that they are 13 there during drilling and during in our case 14 where we are plugging the wells they come out. 15 DNR is there to inspect wells. 16 EXAMINATION OF MR. MACFARLANE 17 BY MR. FINNIGAN 18 Q. You already have the state permit; is that 19 right? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Does the state permit that you have supersede 22 what we do? 23 A. That is my understanding. That is my Page 91 1 understanding. 2 Q. Is it the county's understanding? I mean, is 3 there a dispute about this? 4 A. About the permit itself? 5 Q. Well, do you think you had to come before this 6 Board or is this something you thought you 7 could drill this well without it? 8 A. No, sir. No. Once we went into We 9 understood that there was a zoning. 10 Q. What if we say no to this, will you drill the 11 well anyway? 12 A. I can't answer that but I We would not go in 13 there. I don't think we would go in there. 14 I'm speaking as the vice president. Unless I 15 got orders otherwise, I do not believe we would 16 go in there, sir. 17 Q. Even with the state permit that you have? 18 A. No. That's not what our company does. 19 Q. Okay. 20 MR. KNAPP: Jim, maybe I can clear that 21 up and, Bill, interrupt me if you think I'm 22 wrong. Plenty of regulated activity has 23 numerous levels of regulation. McLean County Page 92 1 could go in and enforce its ordinance if they 2 drilled without the special use permit, and the 3 state would go in and enforce their Same way 4 they wouldn't be allowed to drill just by 5 getting the special use permit. They'd still 6 need the EPA. There's just different levels of 7 regulation. I don't know if that helps or not. 8 EXAMINATION OF MR. MACFARLANE 9 BY MS. RUDOLPH 10 Q. I have to go back two-and-a-half weeks and so I 11 have to remember. I'm sure you submitted a map 12 of the O'Rourke property to this Board and 13 A. Yes, ma'am. 14 Q. showing where the initial test well would 15 have been and where the 16 MS. RUDOLPH: Do we Do we have a slide 17 of that? 18 BY MS. RUDOLPH: 19 Q. The testimony that we heard roughly I'm 20 looking at the slide of this property. We 21 heard roughly that the test well was roughly 22 five miles from the Mahomet aquifer. So when 23 we look at this property being, what, how many Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (23) Pages 89 - 92 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 93 1 acres? Two hundred 2 A. 220, 230 acres. Somewhere in there. 3 MR. BEHARY: 275. 4 MS. RUDOLPH: 275? 5 THE WITNESS: 275 at that time. 6 BY MS. RUDOLPH: 7 Q. So five five miles from Mahomet aquifer is 8 still a good ballpark. I mean, it's not going 9 to vary that much. I mean, it could be five 10 and a quarter miles, possibly a little farther 11 from the yeah, it would be farther I would 12 think looking depending where the aquifer 13 is. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. 14 I thought there was some maybe some 15 concern about how much the wells would be 16 closer. Do you think any of them would be 17 closer to the Mahomet aquifer? 18 A. No. That's all we have leased. And that 19 the test well is the well that has been 20 identified by our geologist, geophysicist, and 21 that's where the well was picked. From 22 those 23 Q. And anyone that would like to examine this Page 94 1 document, certainly it's part of the record 2 here. I just 3 A. Absolutely. 4 MS. RUDOLPH: Any further questions from 5 members of the Board? Any further questions 6 from Staff? Do any interested parties or 7 objectors have questions for Mr. MacFarlane at 8 this point? 9 MR. CARLSON: My name is Don Carlson. 10 510 East Washington Street, Bloomington, 11 Illinois. 12 MS. RUDOLPH: Better spell your name 13 MR. CARLSON: C-a-r-l-s-o-n. 14 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. 15 EXAMINATION OF MR. MACFARLANE 16 BY MR. CARLSON 17 Q. Entered into the record was the EPA findings of 18 violation order for compliance to Minard Run. 19 The document was entered into evidence 20 yesterday. Is this what you're referring to in 21 the testimony you just gave? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. Are you claiming that this document was just Page 95 1 a a paperwork or an administrative issue? 2 A. It started out by a letter from the DEP stating 3 that amongst others other companies that 4 other companies were doing the same that 5 we may be taking This was just when the 6 Marseilles shale was coming up in the state of 7 8 So we have a facility and they sent out a 9 blanket letter to various facilities and we 10 were one saying that potentially we were taking 11 Marseilles brine water, were treating it and 12 disposing it and that was not the case. 13 Q. So you're suggesting that it was mainly a 14 misunderstanding? 15 A. Oh, absolutely it was a misunderstanding. 16 Q. Do you have a copy of this document in front of 17 you? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Could you go to page page 6 of the document 20 for me? Paragraph 45. And read that. 21 MR. WETZEL: Can you help me? Mine's 22 separated so I don't know When you say 23 page 6 are you referring to Page 96 1 MR. CARLSON: I'm referring to page 6 of 2 the EPA finding of violation order for 3 compliance to Minard Run Oil Company submitted 4 September, 2011. 5 MR. WETZEL: The bottom numbered 6 paragraph on page (sic) 45? 7 MR. CARLSON: That's correct. 8 MR. WETZEL: Yes, I have it (indicating). 9 BY MR. CARLSON: 10 Q. Could you read just the first couple lines of 11 that 45, paragraph 45. 12 A. Violation of terms and condition of this order 13 and request constitutes an additional violation 14 of the Act and may result in a civil action for 15 injunctive relief and/or penalty not to exceed 16 $37,000.00 per day. 17 Q. And maybe just that last line then. That has 18 the other 19 A. In addition provide criminal sanctions for 20 knowing of negligent violations of the Act 21 including imprisonment and fines up to 22 $50,000.00 per day. 23 Q. That sounds pretty serious, doesn't it? Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (24) Pages 93 - 96 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 97 1 A. If they They have always in their reports 2 they have very serious findings but there was 3 zero findings. 4 Q. As a result of this wasn't there water tests 5 that were done in Lewis Run? 6 A. Our facility's always testing water there. 7 It's required. 8 Q. Submitted into the record the other day were I 9 believe one or two water test reports that were 10 done by a third party consultant. Do you 11 recall that? 12 A. All of our water is sent to a third party 13 independent lab for analyzation. 14 Q. I'm asking about the document that was 15 submitted into the record. 16 MR. KNAPP: Which document are you 17 referring to? Capparella's document? 18 MR. CARLSON: No. I'm referring to a 19 document by a firm that did water 20 quality tests I believe in August of 2012 of 21 Lewis Run Creek. 22 MR. KNAPP: Can you tell us which 23 document you're referring to in the record? Page 98 1 MR. DICK: Who submitted this document 2 and what was it called? 3 MR. CARLSON: Dr. Rau submitted it. It 4 was included in the same packet of materials 5 with the EPA order of violation, a frequently 6 asked question page from the Illinois 7 Department of Health regarding radium levels 8 and then one or two water survey sample 9 reports. Did Mr. Dick find it? 10 MR. BEHARY: We did. 11 MR. DICK: Is that the one (indicating) 12 you're talking about? 13 MR. CARLSON: No. 14 MR. DICK: A different one submitted by 15 Mr. Rau? 16 MR. CARLSON: Yeah. Madam Chair, would 17 it be possible in the certainly not this 18 evening because I don't have that document 19 although I know we submitted it into the 20 record. If this continues to tomorrow, at 21 least be able to 22 MR. DICK: (Indicating). 23 MR. CARLSON: That's from the Department Page 99 1 of Health. 2 MR. DICK: (Indicating). 3 MR. CARLSON: That's from the EPA. 4 MR. DICK: (Indicating). 5 MR. CARLSON: That's the document. I 6 apologize for the delay. 7 BY MR. CARLSON: 8 Q. It's a document from Analytical Services, 9 Incorporated to Brockway, and it 10 was from sample sizes taken in 10-6-2011. And 11 this was in reference Are you familiar with 12 this document? 13 A. I'd have to see it. 14 Q. Sure. I'll read just the top of it because 15 everyone has a copy of this, but the customer 16 is Minard Run Oil Company, Bradford, PA. 17 That's your company, correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And this does have to do with essentially the 20 enforcement chain that I just described with 21 the EPA letter of violation to your company, 22 right? 23 A. Yes. Page 100 1 Q. And are you From your previous testimony 2 here just now did you state that essentially 3 this was a bad report or somehow faulty? 4 A. No. There was in our when Not on 5 that. We had to do radium testing excuse 6 me radioactive testing, the facilities that 7 were from the EPA and we took the test, and 8 ours never showed any amounts of radium or 9 radioactive materials that you're saying 10 so-called we dumped. 11 Q. Well, you just said that this test result 12 you understand what this is and this is an 13 accurate test. But when and I can certainly 14 pass this around. Radium 226 is at a level of 15 155 picoCuries. Radium 228 is at 99 16 picoCuries. 17 Do you know what the level of EPA safe 18 level of picoCuries is for radium? 19 A. No, I do not. That's not my expertise. And 20 all I can say at the end of all this testing 21 that the EPA cleared us of any type of 22 Q. We're going to get to that in a second. Would 23 you be surprised if the number five was the Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (25) Pages 97 - 100 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 101 1 maximum level of picoCuries for radium? 2 A. I That is not my expertise. 3 MR. CARLSON: Mr. Dick, could you please 4 pass around the page from the Illinois 5 Department of Health that talks about the 6 maximum level of picoCuries in radium? 7 MR. DICK: Is that one of your Is that 8 one of your exhibits 9 MR. CARLSON: Yes, sir. You showed it to 10 me just a second ago. 11 MR. WETZEL: Am I understanding this 12 right? We're looking at an Illinois 13 requirement? 14 MR. CARLSON: It is from the Illinois 15 Department of Health which is where we are at 16 right now, but I understand that it mimics the 17 Federal EPA maximum levels as well. 18 MR. KNAPP: Is this it, sir? 19 MR. CARLSON: Yes, sir. 20 BY MR. CARLSON: 21 Q. I'm going to hand this over. Could you read 22 the highlighted part where it talks about the 23 maximum levels of radium picoCuries in water? Page 102 1 A. Exposure to Exposure to high levels of 2 radium also have shown an increased incidence 3 of bone, liver and breast cancer. 4 Q. And the number the maximum number? 5 A. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, a maximum 6 containment level, MCL, for radium in public 7 water supplies of five picoCuries per liter. 8 Q. Thank you. And you came in at 155; is that 9 right? 10 A. I Again, I don't know. 11 Q. Sir, I'll pass back the report to you. You can 12 read the number. 13 MR. WETZEL: Let me and I have seen 14 this document but if what was said just said 15 was accurate about the reading, it seems to be 16 applying to a public water supply. This is not 17 the business of Minard 18 MR. CARLSON: Madam Chair, I think I have 19 the right to ask questions without getting 20 rebuttal argument from the lawyer. 21 MR. WETZEL: But the questions have to be 22 related to cross-examination based upon 23 testimony given, and to refer to some Illinois Page 103 1 statute that applies apparently to I assume 2 municipalities but, anyway, somebody that 3 has a public water supply obligation or town 4 I'm not sure that's appropriate 5 cross-examination. 6 MR. CARLSON: Madam Chair, the Illinois 7 issue mimics the Federal issue. And what we've 8 heard is I believe somewhat conflicting 9 testimony that this EPA violation order was 10 just sort of something went in the wrong file, 11 but in reality it's dealing with some very 12 serious issues, specifically those of 13 radioactivity. 14 So I'm just trying to lay the record as 15 I've just been asking those questions. 16 MS. RUDOLPH: And I think you have and 17 I think you've made your point, and I think we 18 can't go much farther with it. 19 MR. CARLSON: I have one final question. 20 BY MR. CARLSON: 21 Q. Can you describe the reason that the EPA 22 finally let you off the hook? 23 A. We well-documented what our facility does. We Page 104 1 corresponded closely with the EPA. We went 2 through a long period of putting everything 3 together for them, and upon their review they 4 were satisfied with what we have done. 5 Q. Isn't the real answer that you closed the Dent 6 facility that was discharging pollutants into 7 Lewis Stream? Wasn't that the only reason why 8 they let you off the hook? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. Would you be surprised if we again went back to 11 the record and found a letter from Minard Run 12 to the EPA saying that we've closed the Dent 13 facility which is the core of this issue, 14 correct? 15 A. Yes. And I can tell you why. It was starting 16 to become uneconomical for us. It wasn't 17 because of the This was cleared. 18 Q. Is that uneconomical argument included in the 19 letter that was sent to the EPA? Did you make 20 that argument to the EPA? 21 A. I made no argument to them. 22 Q. Did your company make that argument to them in 23 that letter that's available and part of the Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (26) Pages 101 - 104 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 105 1 record, or did you or more correctly did you 2 tell EPA that you closed the Dent facility and 3 therefore no more pollutants and radioactive 4 discharge would be in Lewis Run? 5 A. We closed the facility because it was becoming 6 uneconomical for us. 7 Q. Which coincidentally also got you off the hook 8 with the $36,000.00 fines. 9 A. They've never stated a fine to us. 10 MR. CARLSON: I have no more questions. 11 MR. KNAPP: Could I get those documents 12 back? 13 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. I apologize for 14 going so long. We're going to just take about 15 a five-minute break. We need a little break 16 here. 17 (Whereupon a short recess was 18 taken and proceedings resumed as 19 follows.) 20 MS. RUDOLPH: Any other interested 21 parties or objectors have questions for 22 Mr. MacFarlane? Sorry to make have you 23 identify yourself every time. Page 106 1 DR. WEST: David West. 6116 North 2200 2 East Road, Downs, Illinois. 3 EXAMINATION OF MR. MACFARLANE 4 BY DR. WEST 5 Q. I don't know if I heard this correctly, but the 6 entire lease agreement is available for review? 7 Did I hear that incorrectly? 8 A. No, sir. That What was recorded was a 9 another document for the lease. 10 Q. These are This is a snippet from the full 11 contract or lease agreement with 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. the O'Rourke? That document the full 14 document is not available? 15 A. No, sir. 16 Q. Would you make the full document available? 17 A. To the public? 18 Q. Well, to the Board? To any interested party. 19 I'm assuming I'm an interested party. 20 MR. WETZEL: I'm not sure where this 21 goes. I think Mr. MacFarlane in his answer 22 relates to the proprietary nature of the lease. 23 It is between Minard Run Oil and the owners Page 107 1 or owner of this property. It is true that 2 there has been a memorandum recorded. It is 3 his testimony that the referenced language is a 4 part of the lease. 5 DR. WEST: I mean, the reason I'm 6 interested is because I I deal with 7 contracts from my from a professional 8 stance. I'm not an attorney. I'm a physician. 9 But I do deal with contracts and I'm 10 always a little worried that when I just get a 11 little snippet of the contract, what is the 12 actual contract telling us besides this little 13 part that I'm made available to me. 14 And if you're going to make part of the 15 contract available, it just seems intuitive 16 that you would make the entire contract 17 available. 18 MR. WETZEL: I would suggest that we are 19 prepared to make as a condition of the issuance 20 of this special use permit a clause similar to 21 that which would should be the adequate 22 assurance to you that it would be followed 23 regardless of the other terms of this lease Page 108 1 agreement. 2 I think that is proprietary in nature and 3 I Enough said. The testimony is this is 4 part of it. The testimony is the company will 5 follow it. I applaud your curiosity about it 6 and I applaud your caution about it but 7 DR. WEST: So the answer to that would be 8 no. And I'll move onto my next question. I 9 don't want to belabor the point already. We're 10 now 15 hours and 20 minutes into this so I'll 11 move on. 12 BY DR. WEST: 13 Q. The answer For the record the answer was no 14 then; is that correct? 15 A. Yes, sir. No. 16 Q. In the small several paragraphs of the 17 contract you state that the well will be 18 checked prior to drilling and then once after 19 drilling. Is there a timeline on when those 20 are to be performed 21 A. Prior to the Prior to what we would call 22 spudding of the well or starting the drilling 23 itself. Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (27) Pages 105 - 108 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 109 1 Q. And then after what would be the timeline 2 for afterwards? 3 A. That would be after the drilling of the well or 4 completion of the well. 5 Q. Do you have an approximate number of days that 6 that would be? 7 A. The depend on scheduling. The drilling 8 would be a couple days of drilling and then 9 when A rig would be brought in for 10 completion. That depends on the weather. It 11 could be It could be days, it could be 12 months depending on when the completion takes 13 place. 14 Q. In the text it says you will test the well. 15 What are you testing for? 16 A. It will be the typical water standards by the 17 state. 18 Q. Who would be performing this? 19 A. We would have a third party independent lab 20 come and take the samples, analyze the samples 21 and send the results out. 22 Q. And do you know the name of that lab? 23 A. No. We would contract a lab. Page 110 1 Q. Do you know what the nawning (phonetic) 2 standard water testing sample protocol? 3 A. Do I know it offhand? 4 Q. Yes. 5 A. No, sir. But we do them periodically when 6 when needed on projects. 7 Q. Do you test for any petroleum byproducts? 8 A. Yes. They test for hydrocarbons. 9 Q. Do you know what hydrocarbons they're testing 10 for? 11 A. Particularly methane. 12 Q. Are you testing for benzene? 13 A. I believe benzene is in there, sir. 14 Q. Could you provide a list to me of the of 15 what actually is being tested? 16 A. When we go When we go to do the test. 17 Q. I didn't quite 18 A. When I couldn't I do not have a list 19 right here, but we could get a prior to 20 drilling should we get the approval to do so we 21 would then I could give you a list. 22 Q. Why couldn't you give us the list now? 23 A. I couldn't give it to you right now because I Page 111 1 don't have it. 2 Q. Well, I don't mean right now. Before the 3 completion of this of this hearing. 4 A. I don't know when that will be. 5 Q. Well, the concern there is it doesn't spell out 6 in the contract what you're going to be testing 7 for. You said the basic water testing is not 8 going to include any type of petroleum 9 products, hydrocarbons, methane. 10 I have my well tested every year so I 11 know what's tested in a basic health department 12 water test. You're testing for basic 13 chemistries and coliform bacteria is what 14 you're testing for. You're not testing for a 15 wide gamut of hydrocarbons. 16 A. No. And then they would not be doing this 17 either in our test. Most of it is just to pick 18 up the methane. 19 Q. So you're not going to be testing for 20 hydrocarbons other than methane. 21 A. That's the predominant component in oil and gas 22 is methane. 23 Q. Right. So you're going to test for methane Page 112 1 only and nothing else. 2 A. I have to work with the lab and look how far 3 they can bring it down. 4 Q. I'm still unclear. So, I mean, that's the 5 question. You're testing for methane only; is 6 that correct? 7 A. I can look into the labs and see how much 8 further would be broken down, but when you 9 typically see that the hydrocarbons you're 10 basically looking at mainly methane, propane 11 and butane. 12 Q. Those are gas. 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. You're not Of the liquid hydrocarbons we're 15 not testing. 16 A. As in that's within that's what's going 17 to be coming out of the well 18 Q. Well, that would be a concern. As it's stated 19 here you don't you don't there's no 20 explanation what's going to be tested for. I 21 guess If we're going to test, why don't we 22 test for appropriate chemicals that are 23 potentially harmful rather than We're not Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (28) Pages 109 - 112 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 113 1 spelling out All we're spelling out here is 2 the basic test. 3 MS. RUDOLPH: Dr. West, I think he has 4 stated that he's not sure what they're going to 5 be testing for. I think we can probably move 6 on. 7 DR. WEST: I have no further questions. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. Anyone else 9 have questions for Mr. MacFarlane. 10 MS. KEYLIN: Margaret Keylin, 11 K-e-y-l-i-n. Downs, Illinois. 12 EXAMINATION OF MR. MACFARLANE 13 BY MS. KEYLIN 14 Q. I was just wondering do Let's see. If there 15 would be some contamination that came into the 16 well and this would be within your parameters, 17 what is that well owner's recourse should 18 contamination happen after your test? After 19 your test. 20 You said once before and once after. 21 Let's say nothing is found that once after 22 which would be immediately after the drill. 23 What if the contamination happens maybe Page 114 1 from leeching down from rain water, from the 2 clay chemical slurry that's been put on the top 3 of the ground that could affect a well. 4 Is there any recourse for the landowner 5 or the well owner after that last test, the 6 once after test you do? 7 A. The recourse of the landowner? They would I 8 would assume the landowner you know, we 9 would both know the landowner would have to 10 notify well, excuse me. This is right after 11 that test? The test before and the test after. 12 Q. Yeah. You test once before. You test once 13 after. If in the time you are on that land you 14 mix chemicals in and all of that, if the well 15 is contaminated what is the recourse of the 16 well owner? 17 A. We would work with the landowner to rectify the 18 situation. 19 Q. And is that in writing someplace or how is that 20 guaranteed? 21 A. It is not in writing at the moment. It's not 22 guaranteed at the moment other than we would 23 Q. It would be goodwill? Page 115 1 A. It would be goodwill. 2 Q. And I don't know if this is knowledge that we 3 can have or not but how long is the lease for? 4 A. The lease is for perpetual until we stop 5 producing and abandon the lease. 6 Q. So you have control over how long the lease 7 goes? It's like unending until? 8 A. Yes. Absolutely. 9 Q. Thank you. 10 MS. RUDOLPH: Thank you. Any others have 11 questions? Okay. Back to you, Mr. Wetzel. 12 MR. WETZEL: Madam Chair, we don't have a 13 PowerPoint but I did pass out hard copies for 14 those old-fashions of us. I apologize. I had 15 this prepared actually a couple nights ago and 16 I could have probably if I'd known it wasn't 17 going to be showing up until tonight I 18 probably could have reduced it to that form but 19 I didn't. 20 I think I hope there is enough 21 available for each of the members of the Board 22 to have a peak at it. I can put a copy on a 23 table and maybe the objectors can have a peak Page 116 1 at it. 2 Testimony about it is to be presented by 3 Bob Herr. Tell me a good way to do this and I 4 will. I want to accommodate everybody and give 5 everybody a chance to look at it to see what he 6 is referring and I do have five copies. 7 MR. KNAPP: I'm going to put our copy 8 over on that table. We just need they'll 9 need to make sure we get this back. 10 EXAMINATION OF ROBERT HERR 11 BY MR. WETZEL 12 Q. Bob, for the record would you state your name 13 and address? 14 A. My name is Robert C. Herr, III. My business 15 address is post office box 885, Mt. Vernon, 16 Illinois, 62864. 17 MR. DICK: Could you spell your last 18 name, sir? 19 THE WITNESS: H-e-r-r. 20 BY MR. WETZEL: 21 Q. Now Mr. Herr, I'm going to ask you about an 22 exhibit that has been handed up and put on 23 display if you will to the extent it has been, Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (29) Pages 113 - 116 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 117 1 and I'm going to ask you if you would please 2 tell the members of this Board what this is and 3 how it was prepared and at whose direction and 4 then we'll get into what it depicts. 5 A. Well, it's a map that shows the outline of the 6 Mahomet aquifer and all of the oil well and 7 structure test borings in the region. It was 8 assembled by a geologist in Mt. Vernon, a 9 business associate and friend of mine named 10 Marshall E. Daniel at my request. 11 Q. And I'm going to hand you a letter that was 12 addressed to you dated October 16, 2014, from 13 Marshall E. Daniel and, again, I think it would 14 serve as a resource if you will for the Board 15 to have an understanding a little better 16 understanding if you will of what went into the 17 preparation of this and what it is. Could you 18 explain that please? 19 What direction you gave to Marshall 20 Daniel, what resources he used and what he came 21 up with in terms of that. 22 A. Well, this goes back to when I began preparing 23 drilling cost estimates for Minard Run Oil Page 118 1 Company as to and the drilling procedure for 2 drilling this well, and as I've testified 3 earlier when the State of Illinois issues a 4 drilling permit to us they specify on the 5 permit how much surface casing we are to set to 6 protect underground sources of drinking water. 7 Referred to as USDW commonly. 8 Well, the state has actually composed an 9 atlas of fresh water. I can look in this atlas 10 anywhere in the state of Illinois. If I'm 11 planning a well, then I can look in this atlas 12 and know how much surface casing I'm going to 13 have to set and I routinely do that as part of 14 the cost estimating and well construction 15 planning. 16 But the final authority is what's put on 17 the permit by the state even though typically 18 ours are the same because we use the same data 19 and the same calculation method. 20 So about this time I become aware of the 21 significance of the Mahomet aquifer and I 22 thought, well, you know, this is obviously an 23 important source of drinking water and we want Page 119 1 to be sure we don't make a mistake and not 2 adequately protect it. 3 So I became concerned about whether or 4 not the depths specified by the state was 5 correct. And they in fact specify that an oil 6 operator drilling in McLean County or anywhere 7 in the county will set 350 feet of surface 8 casing. That's just That's their their 9 depth that they've established. 10 And I thought, well, you know, they're 11 fallible. I'm going to double-check and I'm 12 going to be sure, and so I got on the state 13 website the state water survey website to 14 try to find out what I could about the Mahomet 15 aquifer. 16 This first page here is what I turned up 17 and there's a small map up here on the front of 18 the aquifer or that shows the bounds of the 19 aquifer. It's too small to be useful and so at 20 that point I called the water survey and was 21 put in touch with George Roadcap, the name you 22 heard earlier, and who as I understand is a 23 specialist in the Mahomet aquifer. Page 120 1 And I explained to him who I was and that 2 I was working for a company that intended to 3 drill an oil well in Section 15 of Downs 4 Township. I asked him if he could provide me 5 with the depths of the Mahomet aquifer at our 6 well location, and he looked it up on his map 7 and his reply was you are not located over the 8 Mahomet aquifer. 9 I said, well, okay. He said you're in an 10 area where there might be tributaries 11 contributing to the aquifer but you're well 12 outside the bounds of the Mahomet aquifer. I 13 said okay. 14 So at that point I was I was happy to 15 accept the state's You know, he said in the 16 area where the aquifer is developed it's about 17 275 feet and so with the requirement to set 18 350 feet of surface casing to protect any fresh 19 waters I felt comfortable. 20 So then as as this whole process 21 progressed I became more curious about it, and 22 I recommended to Minard Run that we have a map 23 constructed as the issue of plugged wells Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (30) Pages 117 - 120 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 121 1 came came up and the viability of the plugs 2 and those issues, you know. 3 The thought occurred to me that there 4 was probably had been some oil wells drilled 5 or dry holes I should say more properly within 6 the confines of the aquifer somewhere. 7 I didn't know where they were and so I 8 recommended to Minard Run that we hire an 9 independent geologist to prepare a study and 10 what what I specified to him I said we 11 want to know, one, the extent of the aquifer in 12 relation to our proposed drill site and we want 13 to know what oil well borings have been have 14 taken place within the confines the map 15 confines of the aquifer just for our own 16 education. 17 We also want to know if you can identify 18 any problems, any pollution, any complaints of 19 landowners or well owners that alleging 20 pollution by an oil well boring. So that It 21 was a verbal charge. There was no written 22 document specifying to him how to do this. 23 I said there is you know, I know there Page 122 1 is a small scale map of the aquifer on the 2 on the front page of their website, and I said 3 I'm quite certain that that was probably a 4 shrink down from mapping that they have done, 5 it may or may not be published and I gave him 6 Mr. Roadcap's name and phone number. 7 And I said this guy's the expert on it 8 and I'm sure he can direct you to the map, and 9 then we'd like you to access the Illinois State 10 Geological Survey oil well mapping system and 11 merge the two. 12 Okay. And so that's what he did. And 13 this map you see in this two-page letter are 14 the results of his work. He downloaded the oil 15 well map and then superimposed the limits of 16 the Mahomet aquifer on it to create a map, and 17 all the little symbols you see in there are 18 mostly dry holes. 19 Now there's in some areas there's 20 you'll see large concentrations of wells. Kind 21 of in the center of the map there you'll see a 22 little tag that says Manlove gas storage field. 23 He tried to identify some of the major Page 123 1 features. 2 So that's what this is and that's how it 3 came about. Some Some of the key points 4 that I want to amplify here is that he found 5 that there had been over 600 oil and gas 6 exploration well structures or stratographic 7 tests and gas storage wells drilled within the 8 confines of the aquifer. 9 Some 550 of these are oil and gas type 10 wells that were drilled and to my knowledge 11 they were all dry holes. I don't know of any 12 oil wells. Now there's obviously the Manlove 13 gas storage field, and then if you look on the 14 upper right of the map there's some there's 15 some smaller gas storage fields. 16 I found this to be good news because 17 we're hearing now it's my testimony that 18 there'd been over 600 oil and gas related 19 borings through this aquifer, and after 20 12 hours of testimony no one has presented any 21 concrete evidence of any pollution of the 22 aquifer by any of these oil and gas borings. 23 Okay. I think it's very reasonable to Page 124 1 assume that as much Internet searching has been 2 done by our adversaries that if there had been 3 any problem of any nature in the written 4 record, that it would have been presented here. 5 And I'd also point out this is not the 6 water well borings. If you recall this 7 gentleman's map, he showed several hundred 8 additional water well borings that have been 9 made into the aquifer. 10 So that's that's basically just my 11 testimony that Well, there's one other 12 salient point I guess is that our findings were 13 the same as his in that the well site is some 14 six miles from the map boundaries of the 15 Mahomet aquifer. 16 I mean, Dr. Rau can't you know, he 17 verified this and the mapping shows it. That's 18 basically the two main things that our mapping 19 showed which you'd heard that already. With 20 that I have no other comments. 21 Q. Let me ask you, Bob. Are there any 22 differences, discrepancies or any 23 inconsistencies between what's reflected on Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (31) Pages 121 - 124 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 125 1 this map and the map that was earlier referred 2 to and was the subject of the PowerPoint? 3 A. I suspect there would probably be some 4 inconsistencies. Some of the boundaries might 5 not line up exactly. You know, that type 6 thing. 7 Q. But as I understand it the underlying mapping 8 of the Mahomet aquifer was secured from some 9 legitimate source of that information. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And the location of these wells is information 12 that was gained through some information in one 13 of the appropriate state agencies? 14 A. Yeah. It came from the Illinois State 15 Geological Survey's oil well database. It's 16 publicly available information. You can You 17 can access their website which is called 18 I-l-o-i-l and download whatever well data they 19 have available there. 20 It varies with how to complete their 21 files on it. Just a matter of comment. I 22 suspect that extensive well data on the Wapella 23 east field is probably available through that Page 126 1 website if it has been digitized. 2 It's been a big process for them to 3 digitize all the oil well records which were 4 formerly maintained in paper form but, I mean, 5 assuming they've got Wapella east digitized you 6 can get whatever data they have available off 7 their website. 8 Q. The wells that you indicated were never 9 well, they were dry holes if you will. Those 10 had to have been sealed up in some fashion when 11 they were terminated or closed down? 12 A. Yes. They would have been plugged and 13 abandoned under the supervision of the 14 Illinois at that time it was the oil and gas 15 division I believe. Depends on the time frame 16 when the well was drilled and then plugged. 17 MR. DICK: Mr. Wetzel, will you move your 18 mic a little closer? 19 MR. WETZEL: Sure. I'm sorry. 20 THE WITNESS: For many, many years 21 there's been been state surveys or state 22 oil and gas people that supervised the drilling 23 and plugging of the wells. Page 127 1 BY MR. WETZEL: 2 Q. Were the systems that were used in the 3 drillings that are shown over the Mahomet 4 aquifer on this particular exhibit done 5 pursuant to state permits so far as you know? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And would the procedures for drilling I 8 suspect you don't know the exact time but 9 would the procedures for the drilling operation 10 be the same as you had described as being 11 common and ordinary and long in use? 12 A. I believe so. We've used pretty much the same 13 drilling methods around here for many years. 14 It's basically rotary drilling with a water 15 based drilling fluid. 16 MR. WETZEL: I don't think I have any 17 more questions. Well Okay. I've got one 18 eye on the clock and 19 MS. RUDOLPH: So do I. 20 MR. WETZEL: I know we've got an issue 21 here too. I have a couple of other tidbits of 22 information to get from him. I know that there 23 was a list furnished at the request of this Page 128 1 Board of the liquids used in the process of 2 drilling and I intend to have him run through 3 that. 4 Probably could finish that in a fairly 5 short period of time. For sure or I assume 6 from what I've seen we're probably not going to 7 finish his cross-examination tonight. Maybe, 8 you know I'm going to kind of defer to you 9 and pretend you're a judge and you're going to 10 tell me what we should be doing. 11 MS. RUDOLPH: And I realize both your 12 clients are from out of town so but I think 13 we should probably stop right now and try to 14 figure out where we're going when we're 15 going to meet again. Unless you see other 16 compelling reasons to continue another five or 17 ten minutes? 18 MR. WETZEL: I'd like to say that five 19 more minutes would would advance the ball 20 but it would not be near the goal line. 21 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. Well, let's let's 22 stop right there and when we return we will 23 you will continue questioning him Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (32) Pages 125 - 128 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 129 1 MR. WETZEL: Yes. 2 MS. RUDOLPH: I believe and then 3 okay. 4 MR. WETZEL: And he is prepared and would 5 otherwise tonight have addressed the issue of 6 these fluids and stuff. So, yes, we're going 7 to get to that. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. So the Board 9 Mr. Dick sent out an e-mail. It was about 10 dates he'd lined up and he did put in there 11 tomorrow night, Friday night, and then he told 12 me that he thought that was probably an error 13 because we'd never met on a Friday night, but I 14 guess I could ask your opinions on that. I see 15 one no. Okay. There we go. 16 In that event I think we should probably 17 talk about okay. We'll definitely be 18 meeting Monday, and I think we should talk 19 about if there is one after that, which could 20 happen, when that might be. 21 And I've already heard that it can't be 22 Tuesday so where are we? 23 MR. BEHARY: Tuesday and Wednesday are Page 130 1 gone. 2 MS. RUDOLPH: Pardon me? 3 MR. BEHARY: Tuesday and Wednesday are 4 gone. 5 MS. RUDOLPH: Tuesday and Wednesday are 6 gone. Okay. We're up to Thursday. 7 MS. TURNER: I can't. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: We're meeting Monday next 9 week. I'm just trying to So everyone can 10 plan ahead I think we should set another date 11 for everyone whether we use it or not. So I 12 don't have a calendar. The following Monday is 13 what? November something. 14 MS. TURNER: Third. 15 MS. RUDOLPH: November 3rd. How is 16 November 3rd? 17 (inaudible) 18 MS. RUDOLPH: We're not going to meet the 19 4th. We have a regular Zoning Board meeting 20 that night. 21 MR. BEHARY: We could meet that 22 afternoon 23 MR. WETZEL: We can just work all night Page 131 1 and get it done. I'm used to going 24 hours. 2 Mr. Herr has indicated he's not available on 3 the 3rd unfortunately. 4 MS. RUDOLPH: He's not available on the 5 3rd? 6 MS. TURNER: Good because I don't think I 7 am either. 8 MS. RUDOLPH: I'm sorry. What dates did 9 you indicate Mr. Herr is not available? 10 MR. WETZEL: The 3rd. 11 MS. RUDOLPH: The 3rd. 12 MR. WETZEL: I'm assuming that's Monday. 13 That's what everybody said but 14 MS. RUDOLPH: On the 27th this Monday 15 coming up could we begin at six o'clock? 16 Everybody okay with that? 17 MR. KNAPP: Go six to ten I would think 18 we'll be close to wrapping it up. 19 MR. WETZEL: I would You can be 20 assured I'll do everything I can to wrap it up. 21 MS. RUDOLPH: We have closing statements 22 by anyone who gave testimony. Okay. After 23 our break we have one case on November 4th, one Page 132 1 regular case so we could potentially begin back 2 to this case at 7:30. How does that look? 3 MS. TURNER: Sally, I have to apologize. 4 I left my phone and I do not have my calendar 5 with me but I think that that's fine. 6 MS. RUDOLPH: It's a regular meeting. 7 I'm just 8 MS. TURNER: Yeah, I know but I just 9 know that that week is crazy for work things 10 for me. If it doesn't work I will let you know 11 right away but I think that's all right. 12 MS. RUDOLPH: Okay. Here's what's going 13 to happen. We're going to meet at six o'clock 14 on Monday night the 27th, and we'll very likely 15 meet on November 4th at 7:30 but we're not 16 going to set it now till we know for sure. 17 So we're going to continue case SU 1405 18 until 6 p.m. on October 27th in this room and 19 we're adjourned. We are recessed. 20 * * * * * 21 22 23 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (33) Pages 129 - 132 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Page 133 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 I, SUE A. PHELPS, a Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter of the State of Illinois, do hereby 5 certify that I reported in shorthand the 6 proceedings of the McLean County Zoning Board 7 on the 23rd day of October, 2014, in the case 8 of Re: Minard Oil Run Company, and that the 9 foregoing is a true and correct transcript of 10 my shorthand notes so taken aforesaid and 11 contains all the proceedings given in said 12 hearing. 13 14 15 16 SUE A. PHELPS, C.S.R. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (34) Page 133 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 $ $36,000.00 105:8 $37,000.00 96:16 $50,000.00 96:22 $500.00 89:22 A abandon 7:2;115:5 abandoned 6:17;11:18;17:16,19; 20:14;126:13 ability 70:2 able 32:12;34:4;76:11; 98:21 above 25:22;30:18;84:12, 13 above-described 88:14 Absolutely 94:3;95:15;115:8 accept 120:15 access 67:23;122:9;125:17 accidentally 38:14 accommodate 116:4 accordance 72:5 accurate 46:13;100:13;102:15 acquisitions 34:1 acre 51:5 acres 41:12;60:13,14,19; 93:1,2 Act 68:4;74:12;75:6; 76:16;88:12,18;96:14, 20 action 78:5;96:14 actions 65:17;83:10 actively 63:9;64:8;72:10 activities 71:1;80:23 activity 91:22 actual 26:14;55:10;86:3; 107:12 actually (21) 8:19;9:1;10:1;13:4, 22;19:11;25:8;37:7; 39:22;40:3,5;43:23; 59:3;64:13;65:14; 66:18;67:7;72:23; 110:15;115:15;118:8 add 53:11 addition 9:2;19:11;96:19 additional 9:8;42:16;86:15,16; 96:13;124:8 address (12) 5:4;16:23;36:20,22; 66:2,4;80:12,13,15; 81:4;116:13,15 addressed 86:8;117:12;129:5 adequate 43:5;72:11;107:21 adequately 119:2 adjacent 25:9,16;28:6;85:19 adjourned 132:19 administrative 83:14;84:10;89:17; 95:1 admitted 81:16;87:9 advance 17:11;128:19 advancing 8:14 adversaries 124:2 affect 25:15;32:8,16,17; 114:3 affected 7:7;32:14,22;57:15 affidavit 11:19 afternoon 68:18;130:22 afterwards 109:2 again (15) 16:23;18:2;21:1; 45:23;54:17;60:7,12; 63:6;72:9;76:22;86:11; 102:10;104:10;117:13; 128:15 against 63:9 agencies 68:15;125:13 Agency 13:19;66:17;69:21; 74:6;79:22;81:21;84:4; 85:2;102:5 agent 38:18 agents 9:5 ago 50:13;72:16;101:10; 115:15 agree 62:1 agreed 67:13;79:12 agreement 106:6,11;108:1 agrees 86:20 agricultural 41:4 agriculture 41:14 ahead 130:10 albeit 40:7 alleged 78:12;80:23 alleging 121:19 allowable 83:17 allowed 83:3;92:4 almost 18:8 along 9:1 although 98:19 always 61:17;66:20,22;97:1, 6;107:10 amongst 95:3 amount 20:2;25:18,23;46:19; 83:17 amounts 100:8 amplify 123:4 analysis 24:14;25:19 Analytical 99:8 analyzation 97:13 analyze 109:20 analyzed 24:9 and/or 86:17;96:15 annually 46:12 annular 12:23 answered 79:8 Anymore 63:18 AO 84:13 apologize 99:6;105:13;115:14; 132:3 apology 17:11 apparently 61:8;103:1 Appeals 4:2,21 appear 67:14,14 appeared 67:13 appears 26:16 applaud 108:5,6 applicant 15:20;20:1;21:17 applicants 6:8 application 20:7 applied 62:8 applies 103:1 apply 20:8 applying 62:10;102:16 appropriate 77:10;103:4;112:22; 125:13 appropriately 65:18 approval 110:20 approved 51:18 approximate 44:22;109:5 approximately 63:1 aquifer (73) 5:12;10:12,13;11:8; 14:16;16:5,16;25:10, 20,23;26:4,5,10,17,22; 27:19;30:5,22,22;31:6, 14,15,21,22;40:3,4,8; 43:1,18;44:12,14,19; 45:16;46:1,4;57:15,18, 21,23;58:5,10,12,17; 59:2,3,3;92:22;93:7,12, 17;117:6;118:21; 119:15,18,19,23;120:5, 8,11,12,16;121:6,11, 15;122:1,16;123:8,19, 22;124:9,15;125:8; 127:4 aquifers (10) 20:15;25:22;28:19, 22;30:3,8,13;31:16,23; 33:3 area (25) 6:1,14;7:18;17:19; 22:3;23:12;31:13,17; 32:13;39:10;40:9,14, 16,23;41:15;43:4; 45:23;49:8;50:2,3; 52:4,16,19;120:10,16 areas 40:23;61:2;122:19 arena 68:5 arguably 78:10 arguing 78:17 argument 102:20;104:18,20, 21,22 arms 44:11 arose 35:8 around (17) 11:23;12:2,3;15:9; 25:6,6;28:3,17;30:12; 31:2;50:15;53:8;78:20, 21;100:14;101:4; 127:13 arrow 63:5 articulate 82:9 ash 13:23 assembled 117:8 assessed 47:2 assigned 67:5 associate 117:9 assume 22:8;56:20;61:14; 69:8;85:5;103:1;114:8; 124:1;128:5 assuming 20:2;106:19;126:5; 131:12 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] $36,000.00 - assuming ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 assurance 107:22 assured 68:1;131:20 atlas 118:9,9,11 atmospheric 24:12,13 attempted 79:22 attention 68:22 attest 19:13 attorney 66:7;76:8;77:10,20; 78:12;107:8 Attorney's 77:14;78:7 August 84:2;97:20 authority 87:20;118:16 authorizations 88:13 authorize 87:21 authorizes 87:20 available (27) 6:15;15:3,5,8,13,14, 15,17;68:2,14;69:19; 74:11;104:23;106:6, 14,16;107:13,15,17; 115:21;125:16,19,23; 126:6;131:2,4,9 avenues 9:1 average 18:2 aware (12) 29:17;41:20;43:10; 46:6;50:3;52:10;57:17; 58:3,15,20;70:22; 118:20 away 7:21;28:8;83:20; 132:11 awhile 80:20 B back (22) 8:19;10:6,8;17:15; 18:9;20:11;24:5;37:17; 51:18;52:1;56:22; 76:13;80:16;86:2; 92:10;102:11;104:10; 105:12;115:11;116:9; 117:22;132:1 back-up 8:13 backyard 24:6 bacteria 111:13 bad 73:6;100:3 bag 13:12 bags 13:4;14:2,3 balance 22:10 ball 128:19 ballpark 14:15;17:18,21;93:8 Bangert 4:12,13 barrel 47:6 barrels 39:8,15 Based 10:13;21:8,10,12; 31:1;47:4;74:18; 102:22;127:15 basic 111:7,11,12;113:2 basically 56:18;60:4;112:10; 124:10,18;127:14 basis 90:2 bear 43:5 bearing 7:8 bears 88:1 became 54:7;119:3;120:21 become 39:20;43:2;104:16; 118:20 becoming 105:5 bedrock 28:19;30:16,16;31:4, 14;32:4 began 117:22 begin 131:15;132:1 beginning 36:2;65:21 Behary 35:21,23;93:3;98:10; 129:23;130:3,21 belabor 108:9 belief 88:15 bell 59:16 below 19:1;31:4,7 benefit 86:14 bentonite (10) 9:5;12:5,17,20;13:6, 10,12,13,16;53:21 benzene 110:12,13 benzenes 59:8 berm 50:14 besides 107:12 best 13:11;49:21;85:10 better 35:12;80:1;94:12; 117:15 beyond 6:18;9:9;22:3,4 big 12:13;34:1;57:17,17; 126:2 bill 46:12;91:21 bit (11) 4:19;5:19;8:13; 10:19;12:2;17:4;26:16; 65:13;71:8;76:13;80:9 bla 56:17,17,17 blanket 95:9 blocked 9:1 Bloomington 17:2,8;66:6;94:10 blue 63:5 Board (28) 4:1,21,23;5:8;14:19; 23:1;35:14;37:13;39:2; 47:21;60:17;70:11; 73:22;77:15;82:10; 84:6;86:14;89:2;91:6; 92:12;94:5;106:18; 115:21;117:2,14; 128:1;129:8;130:19 Bob 116:3,12;124:21 bodies 68:9 bone 102:3 boring 121:20 borings 117:7;121:13; 123:19,22;124:6,8 both 13:17;82:18;114:9; 128:11 bottom 23:8;24:21;84:4; 88:5,7;96:5 bought 49:10 bound 81:13 boundaries 124:14;125:4 bounds 119:18;120:12 box 116:15 BP 75:23 Brad 36:7 Bradford 12:18;99:16 breach 7:19;23:1;27:13,18; 54:2;74:18 breached 58:11 break 105:15,15;131:23 breast 102:3 brine 18:20;19:1;20:3,11, 13;95:11 bring 8:15;10:2;13:5; 17:15;112:3 British 75:15 Brockway 99:9 broken 112:8 brought 109:9 bucket 12:19 budget 78:21 Building 68:12 built 14:10 bunch 58:1 burdens 43:5 bushel 51:5 business 4:17;15:12;102:17; 116:14;117:9 butane 112:11 buyer 42:4,4,5;49:14 byproducts 110:7 C cake 9:3 calculated 46:19 calculation 118:19 calculations 25:17 calendar 130:12;132:4 call 4:3;55:12;108:21 called 9:3;25:23;60:10; 67:2;69:14;78:7;98:2; 119:20;125:17 came (18) 10:7;51:19;52:2; 61:10;62:8;67:16; 81:19;82:11;83:20; 84:12;90:10;102:8; 113:15;117:20;121:1, 1;123:3;125:14 can (71) 4:17;6:3,9;7:6;12:21, 22;16:9;17:20;18:21; 20:13;21:12,21;24:5; 25:4,7,17;34:2;35:12, 16,19;37:2;39:2,20; 41:19;45:3,4,5;47:6; 52:12;65:22;68:11,12; 69:7;70:8,19;72:12,18; 74:7,8,23;79:5,15;80:9, 22;87:10;90:12;91:20; 95:21;97:22;100:13, 20;102:11;103:21; 104:15;112:3,7;113:5; 115:3,22,23;118:9,11; 121:17;122:8;125:16, 17;126:6;130:9,23; 131:19,20 cancer 102:3 cap 12:6;39:20;53:15 capacity 67:21 Capparella's 97:17 capped 39:18,19;49:22 capping 42:22 capture 25:18 captured Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] assurance - captured ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 32:4 care 38:2;66:15 CARLSON (25) 94:9,9,13,16;96:1,7, 9;97:18;98:3,13,16,23; 99:3,5,7;101:3,9,14,19, 20;102:18;103:6,19, 20;105:10 C-a-r-l-s-o-n 94:13 Carlton 4:14,15 carries 69:7 carry 66:16;67:21;69:9; 70:3 case (14) 4:18;8:3,4,6;58:15; 68:23;72:6;73:18; 90:13;95:12;131:23; 132:1,2,17 casing (14) 7:3,19,22;9:23; 19:18;23:2;53:11; 75:14,15,20;118:5,12; 119:8;120:18 casings 53:1 Casually 71:3,3 catastrophe 56:3 cattle 63:23 cause 5:16;70:22;82:12 caustic 18:20 caution 108:6 cement 9:2,9;19:12,14,16; 75:15 center 122:21 certain 122:3 Certainly (12) 11:6;16:9,10;40:20; 63:11;64:19;78:11; 80:11;87:11;94:1; 98:17;100:13 certified 53:23;84:8,15 chain 99:20 Chair 98:16;102:18;103:6; 115:12 Champaign 45:5 chance 116:5 change 75:8,10 changes 26:4 character 43:13 characteristic 41:6 charge 121:21 charged 73:16;75:23;83:22 charges 75:21;76:19,21 chase 19:22 check 72:6 checked 108:18 chemical 114:2 chemicals 34:20;112:22;114:14 chemistries 111:13 children 38:10,13 chloride 18:20 choose 35:2;63:11 circle 63:5 City 38:16 civil 96:14 claiming 94:23 clarify 45:19;93:13 Class 20:5;76:17,18 classified 77:17 clause 56:16;107:20 clay 30:19;33:19;114:2 clays 25:21,21 cleaning 55:21 clear 19:23;47:12;71:12; 91:20 cleared 82:19;83:7;89:7; 100:21;104:17 clearly 82:22 clients 128:12 Clinton 44:3,4;52:18 clock 127:18 close (11) 7:3;10:11;22:8;37:5; 40:2;48:23;49:1;63:15; 73:7,7;131:18 closed 84:15;104:5,12; 105:2,5;126:11 closely 57:19;104:1 closer 26:7;43:1;76:14; 93:16,17;126:18 closest 26:15;36:3;40:21; 48:22;49:3 closing 131:21 clue 22:5 coal 6:13 Code 76:6;78:10 coincidentally 105:7 cold 83:19 coliform 111:13 colleague 58:4 comfortable 120:19 coming 24:2,19,22;25:4,5; 28:4;95:6;112:17; 131:15 comment 72:19;125:21 comments 45:14;66:11;124:20 commercial 20:5;68:8 committed 78:8 common 127:11 commonly 118:7 companies 34:1;95:3,4 company (31) 33:21;48:9;55:17,21; 59:19,21,22;60:1,4,10; 72:3;75:23;84:9,17,21, 21;86:22;87:4,21,22; 88:15,16;91:18;96:3; 99:16,17,21;104:22; 108:4;118:1;120:2 comparable 43:12 compared 72:16 compelling 128:16 competent 19:15 complaint 41:16 complaints 121:18 complete 125:20 completed 84:11 completely 61:20 completion 86:23;109:4,10,12; 111:3 compliance 88:11;94:18;96:3 comply 88:17 component 15:11;111:21 composed 118:8 composition 19:14 concentrations 122:20 concern (15) 19:21,22;20:10,12, 16,17,18,20;21:22; 65:1,2;70:23;93:15; 111:5;112:18 concerned 22:5;43:16;64:17,20, 23;119:3 concerns 21:6 conclusion 85:13 concrete 12:16;19:8,11;53:8, 12;123:21 condition 96:12;107:19 conditioned 88:10 conduct 4:17 configuration 30:11 confined 25:23 confines 121:6,14,15;123:8 conflicting 103:8 confusion 5:13;16:10 connected 33:3;83:1 connection 32:8;43:3;71:23; 72:18;82:2 consciousness 73:5 conservationist 44:6;52:14 consider 70:2 constitute 4:16 constitutes 96:13 constructed 120:23 construction 14:1,6;118:14 consultant 97:10 consumption 85:19 contact 67:16;79:10,22 contacted 71:6 containment 102:6 contaminate 57:5 contaminated 21:23;32:15,22; 114:15 contaminates 27:11 contamination 22:10;29:6;113:15, 18,23 content 70:17 contest 90:12 contested 67:19 continual 58:13 continuation 4:18 continue 80:18;128:16,23; 132:17 continues 39:16,23;81:12; 98:20 contract 106:11;107:11,12, 15,16;108:17;109:23; 111:6 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] care - contract ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 contractor 13:11 contracts 107:7,9 contractual 87:4 contributing 120:11 control 115:6 conversations 83:6 conveyed 4:23 conveying 5:22 convict 77:23;78:1 co-owner 67:13 copies 35:14,15;69:18; 115:13;116:6 copy 70:7;84:5;87:1; 95:16;99:15;115:22; 116:7 core 104:13 cork 9:6 corn 51:6 corners 75:14 correctly 105:1;106:5 corresponded 104:1 correspondence 84:17 corrosion 19:9 cost 117:23;118:14 costs 35:3 counsel 77:14 count 17:20;73:18 counted 72:23 counties 26:9 counting 42:11 country 29:5 County (20) 4:1;7:11;11:15; 12:18;14:11;37:6; 40:15;41:1;43:14,23; 45:23;46:9,13,14,18; 47:10;67:19;91:23; 119:6,7 county's 91:2 couple (10) 27:6;41:9;45:8; 59:18;62:19;83:10; 96:10;109:8;115:15; 127:21 course 16:8;47:13,15;70:19; 78:4 court 77:18 courthouse 65:5 crack 10:4 crazy 132:9 create 122:16 Creek 97:21 crime 76:6;77:18 criminal 74:14;76:6;77:1; 78:10;96:19 criticize 63:16;64:14 criticizing 66:20 cross-examination 70:9;102:22;103:5; 128:7 crow 40:7;52:17 curiosity 108:5 curious 67:20;120:21 current 86:4 currently 73:1 customer 99:15 cut 44:11;73:10;75:14; 78:20 cuts 73:13,14;78:21 cuttings 8:15 cycle 24:12,13 D dad 38:9;55:10 damage 58:3,5 Daniel 117:10,13,20 Danvers 22:20 data 83:15;118:18; 125:18,22;126:6 database 125:15 date 130:10 dated 84:2;88:3;117:12 dates 129:10;131:8 David 35:23;62:15;106:1 day 23:23;67:12;71:5; 83:19;85:6;96:16,22; 97:8 days 85:15;109:5,8,11 deal 13:11;107:6,9 dealing 11:9;18:23;24:3; 70:21;103:11 declared 89:8 de-commission 53:16 de-commissioned 42:12;49:22;71:19; 72:4 de-commissioning 72:10 decreases 49:13 deep 13:4;18:1;23:21; 26:20;30:5,16;52:23, 23 deeper 61:3,5 defendant 76:8 defendants 76:9 defer 77:15;128:8 define 32:19 defined 10:13;76:5 definitely 129:17 delay 99:6 Dent 104:5,12;105:2 DEP 82:11,18;95:2 department 73:16;87:13,19;98:7, 23;101:5,15;111:11 depend 21:15;109:7 depending 93:12;109:12 depends 109:10;126:15 depicts 117:4 depleting 59:4 deposits 32:6,6 depth 24:17;30:23;33:20; 34:2;44:22;45:11;53:3; 75:18;119:9 depths 23:20;45:10;119:4; 120:5 describe 39:2;103:21 described 78:9;79:11;86:18; 99:20;127:10 destination 43:7 detail 51:22 details 37:16 detect 33:6;34:4 determine 7:17;24:10;57:14; 58:7 develop 60:18 developed 61:23;120:16 developmental 73:8 deviate 4:19 dewatering 26:21 Dewitt 37:6;43:23;46:13,18 diagnosed 83:12 DICK (19) 4:4,6,8,10,12,14; 15:2;98:1,9,11,14,22; 99:2,4;101:3,7;116:17; 126:17;129:9 died 38:3;54:6;75:16 difference 12:13 differences 124:22 different (12) 8:1,1;12:4;13:3; 26:4;29:5;35:1;42:9; 45:10;67:5;92:6;98:14 differentiation 74:17 differently 69:13 digitize 126:3 digitized 126:1,5 diminished 49:8 direct 122:8 directed 68:3 direction 31:5;117:3,19 directly 35:17 disability 73:8 disagree 40:1;62:1 discharge 82:14;83:16;105:4 discharged 26:11 discharging 104:6 discovered 34:7 discrepancies 124:22 discussed 16:8 discussion 11:10,12;70:20;83:4 dismay 45:21 display 116:23 disposing 95:12 disposition 82:7 dispute 91:3 distance 10:16,19;16:14;26:2, 2 distracted 71:8 distribution 6:12 Division 67:17;126:15 DNR (10) 66:13;68:17;69:5; Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] contractor - DNR ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 70:5;71:6,12;72:6,22; 76:10;90:15 doc 84:18 Doctor 40:9 document (21) 94:1,19,23;95:16,19; 97:14,16,17,19,23; 98:1,18;99:5,8,12; 102:14;106:9,13,14,16; 121:22 documentation 83:5;89:6,18 documents 105:11 dog 61:10 dollars 89:21 Don 94:9 done (11) 5:15,17;66:22;72:6; 97:5,10;104:4;122:4; 124:2;127:4;131:1 Doria 48:7 double-check 119:11 down (48) 5:16;7:14;8:23;10:6, 8;12:18;17:4;18:6,7, 22;19:4;20:11;34:5,7, 13;37:6;38:15,15,16, 18;39:6,11;40:4;43:23; 44:1,2;45:3,4,6;49:10, 12,23;50:8,20,22;51:4, 18;52:1,9,18;53:9; 61:4;67:2;112:3,8; 114:1;122:4;126:11 download 125:18 downloaded 122:14 Downs 29:22;54:22;62:16; 106:2;113:11;120:3 Dr (62) 5:2,2,5,9;6:5,6;9:16, 20;10:9;11:11,16,21; 13:20;14:13,18,21; 15:1,21;16:1,20,23; 17:1,5,7,9,10,11;22:21; 30:1;35:6;36:21;37:4, 9,11;38:22;47:13;48:1; 51:10;52:21;53:5;55:1, 3;59:12,13,14;62:15, 17,18;65:11;74:4; 78:15,16;79:4;98:3; 106:1,4;107:5;108:7, 12;113:3,7;124:16 draw-down 25:11 drawn 56:21;57:2 drill (20) 23:18;27:12;28:14; 29:3;31:9;34:11,12; 51:2,23;53:7;59:1; 63:8;87:14,22;91:7,10; 92:4;113:22;120:3; 121:12 drilled (21) 5:23;14:15;18:2,11; 33:10;40:3;45:9,20; 48:11;52:9,12;55:7; 58:18;60:4,7;61:1; 92:2;121:4;123:7,10; 126:16 driller 19:15;61:6 drilling (58) 5:11,15;6:19;8:14, 15,19;9:6;13:2,2,10; 15:3;19:12;21:7,8,10, 12,18,23;22:1,7;29:7; 32:19;33:7,8;34:5; 50:21,23;51:1;55:11; 60:9;63:1,4;71:23; 86:23;88:13;90:9,10, 11,13;108:18,19,22; 109:3,7,8;110:20; 117:23;118:1,2,4; 119:6;126:22;127:7,9, 13,14,15;128:2 drillings 46:4;127:3 drills 56:6;86:17 drinking 38:17;57:7,12;64:18; 118:6,23 Drive 17:2,8;59:12 driving 26:23;27:16,17 drop 64:22 dry 45:20;121:5;122:18; 123:11;126:9 due 78:21 dumped 100:10 dumping 76:16 during 41:22;90:9,10,13,13 E earlier 45:14,22;118:3; 119:22;125:1 early 33:10 East 22:20;26:9;36:22; 40:18;62:16;94:10; 106:2;125:23;126:5 eastern 31:15 ecosystems 21:21 edge 31:15 education 121:16 effect 50:13 effort 69:11;75:7,10 eighth 49:4 Eighty 51:6 either 12:20,21;43:14;70:4; 73:4;111:17;131:7 elaborate 80:9 electric 71:22 electronically 69:16 elevation 18:23 elevations 30:7 Ellsworth 36:23 else 16:18;65:10;69:13; 70:5;78:8;80:17;85:8; 112:1;113:8 e-mail 68:17;129:9 emerge 77:7 enacted 50:10 enclosing 84:10 end 18:7;27:13;29:3; 100:20 energy 71:22 enforce 92:1,3 Enforcement 67:17;99:20 enough 28:2;56:9;108:3; 115:20 Entered 94:17,19 entire 106:6;107:16 entities 68:15 entity 55:16 entry 16:5 Environmental 13:18;22:6;81:21; 84:3;85:1;102:5 EPA (35) 7:17;10:23;20:13; 34:23;48:17;50:12; 53:17;67:18;68:17; 70:5;82:11,19,22;83:6, 20,21;84:8,11;92:6; 94:17;96:2;98:5;99:3, 21;100:7,17,21; 101:17;103:9,21; 104:1,12,19,20;105:2 error 129:12 escaped 8:8 essentially 99:19;100:2 established 75:20;119:9 estimates 117:23 estimating 118:14 even (10) 12:22;15:13;26:9; 30:9;50:13;58:15; 73:14;79:23;91:17; 118:17 evening 15:22;16:21;86:1; 98:18 event 50:15;76:5;85:18; 86:17,20;87:10;129:16 everybody 116:4,5;131:13,16 everyone 37:1;79:1;99:15; 130:9,11 everywhere 73:10 evidence 94:19;123:21 exact 127:8 exactly 39:7;45:11;125:5 EXAMINATION (30) 5:9;9:20;10:9;11:21; 13:20;15:1;16:1;17:9; 22:21;30:1;37:9;48:1; 51:10;52:21;53:5;55:1; 59:13;62:17;70:12; 72:13;74:3;80:3;81:1; 89:3;90:16;92:8;94:15; 106:3;113:12;116:10 examine 93:23 example 73:9 exceed 74:8;96:15 Except 12:15;34:5 excess 10:22;38:21;39:15 excuse 6:6;66:5;68:16,17; 72:1,2;100:5;114:10 exhibit 69:3;81:16;84:1; 86:12;87:10;116:22; 127:4 exhibits 101:8 existence 10:21 existing 86:19 expect 78:11 expensive 33:23;34:17 experience 90:6 expert 23:11;46:23;122:7 expertise 22:3;100:19;101:2 explain 84:6;117:18 explained 120:1 explanation 82:6;112:20 exploration 6:2;123:6 explore 60:18;61:4 expose 70:8 exposes 68:14 Exposure 102:1,1 expressed 20:12 extend 31:5 extensive 32:18;125:22 extent 39:5;74:7;116:23; 121:11 extracted 46:20 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] doc - extracted ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 extraction 39:3,5;45:17 eye 127:18 F face 44:9;76:1 facilities 73:8;95:9;100:6 facility (10) 82:14,17,23;83:18; 95:8;103:23;104:6,13; 105:2,5 facility's 97:6 fact 13:16;19:6;43:20; 78:10;87:4;119:5 fail 88:20 failure 71:18 failures 19:18 fair 20:2;41:3;60:16,20; 69:8;70:1 fairly 18:16,17;128:4 fall 64:21 fallible 119:11 familiar 26:19;44:14;58:6; 99:11 family 37:19,20 family's 64:17 fancy 15:6 far (14) 7:21;8:11;23:2,4; 27:2;31:4,6;43:14; 52:17;72:12;77:22; 90:6;112:2;127:5 far-a-field 78:15 farm 31:14;63:19,22,23 farmhouse 49:3 farming 41:18;57:22 farmland 51:4 farther 93:10,11;103:18 fashion 126:10 fast 8:12;27:4 father 37:17;38:1,7,8; 45:20;54:6;55:11 fault 9:22 faulty 100:3 feasible 27:14 features 123:1 Federal 46:14,15;47:11; 50:18;53:18;101:17; 103:7 feeding 28:5 feeds 28:22 feel 9:14;45:15;46:23; 63:20 feet (35) 18:6,8;19:4;23:21, 21;24:17;25:6,6;26:3; 27:6,7;28:7,8;30:7,8, 17,18;31:4,7;33:21; 34:2;35:19;36:1,3,5,9; 40:6;45:6,7;63:1,8; 86:19;119:7;120:17,18 felon 78:12 felonies 76:23 felony 76:18,20,21;77:17; 78:1,8,10 felt 120:19 few 59:15 field (40) 10:11;37:7,13,16,21; 38:4,4,5,8,20,23;39:8, 13;40:12;41:2,10,11, 13,15;42:2,10,15,21, 21,23;43:7;44:15,23; 45:9,17;48:6,11,23; 51:19;58:4;60:15;61:9; 122:22;123:13;125:23 fields 39:9,13;43:4;55:5; 123:15 fifties 37:18 fight 38:18;61:10;64:8 fighting 63:9 figure 128:14 file 10:23;69:15;103:10 filed 11:19;21:18;43:23; 44:5;59:19 files 125:21 filing 47:15 final 103:19;118:16 finally 103:22 financial 62:5;73:6 find (10) 10:23;11:2;20:13; 31:9;34:9,12,20;73:1; 98:9;119:14 finding 48:13;61:3;96:2 findings 94:17;97:2,3;124:12 fine 17:22;74:21;75:20; 80:14;83:21;105:9; 132:5 fined 80:7;89:9 fines (11) 48:17;74:14,17;75:1, 3;80:6;84:22;85:4; 89:20;96:21;105:8 finish 128:4,7 finished 6:7 Finnigan 4:4,5;5:10;6:20; 11:22;53:6;70:13; 90:17 fire 42:2,6,7,8 firm 97:19 first (11) 10:17;14:7,9;16:9; 30:4;36:15;57:17; 82:21;88:8;96:10; 119:16 Fish 26:17 five (15) 10:14;16:14;30:8; 50:1;59:20;65:14; 92:22;93:7,7,9;100:23; 102:7;116:6;128:16,18 five-gallon 12:19 five-minute 105:15 five-year 89:19 flare 50:6 flies 40:7;52:17 flinched 66:19 flipped 71:21 flood 52:16 flow 25:18;32:21 fluid 21:18;22:1,7;82:16; 127:15 fluids 129:6 focus 71:8 FOIA 7:16;68:3;69:15 folks 70:6 follow 57:18;108:5 followed 107:22 following 50:17;84:18;130:12 follows 105:19 follow-up 22:23;80:5 foot 45:12 form 12:20,22,22,23;13:3; 46:18;57:22;115:18; 126:4 formal 56:1 formation 19:7 formed 55:17;60:10 formerly 126:4 forum 64:1 forward 16:22;22:15 found 104:11;113:21; 123:4,16 four 10:15;26:8;39:8,15; 42:19;59:20;89:22 four-mile 40:18 fowl 52:16,19 fracking 29:9 Fracturing 76:16 frame 126:15 frankly 68:6 free 80:19 Freedom 68:3 freeze-up 83:18 frequently 98:5 fresh 118:9;120:18 Friday 129:11,13 friend 63:15,15;64:15; 117:9 friends 37:19 fro 83:5 front 87:15;95:16;119:17; 122:2 full 23:7;24:21;106:10, 13,16 fully 44:14 function 74:7 furnished 127:23 further (14) 6:17;14:20,21;25:7; 28:7;40:6;54:13;73:21; 83:4;88:20;94:4,5; 112:8;113:7 G gained 125:12 gallons 23:23 gamut 111:15 gas (19) 14:10;58:19;74:12; 75:5;86:17;88:12,18; 111:21;112:12;122:22; 123:5,7,9,13,15,18,22; 126:14,22 gave 14:8;57:16;85:21; 94:21;117:19;122:5; 131:22 general 20:18;26:5;35:16; Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] extraction - general ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 38:1;40:12;67:3 generally 39:5;56:23 generated 39:14 gentleman 40:1;67:17 gentleman's 124:7 geologic 11:17,19;15:6 Geological 15:16;122:10;125:15 geologist 8:10;33:22;48:11,13; 55:15;60:9;93:20; 117:8;121:9 geology 6:19 geophysical 31:2 geophysicist 93:20 George 119:21 gets 13:11;56:14 Gher 35:9 Gher's 36:8 given 19:6;102:23 glacial 24:4,17 goal 128:20 goes 28:13;43:7;47:8,9, 11;106:21;115:7; 117:22 good (13) 37:19;51:7;60:12; 63:15;64:15;68:9,13; 77:12;79:6;93:8;116:3; 123:16;131:6 goodwill 114:23;115:1 government 47:11 GPR 33:19 graciously 67:13 great 24:3;70:23 greater 83:17 grid 39:18 ground 10:2,3;33:16;114:3 grounds 20:16 groundwater 28:21 group 69:6 guaranteed 114:20,22 guess 26:23;30:4;46:13; 55:22;112:21;124:12; 129:14 guessing 49:23 guy 57:18;60:7,8;64:13 guys 37:20;75:16 guy's 122:7 H habitat 52:19 hairy 71:4 half 10:18 hand 33:21;36:17;64:4; 101:21;117:11 handed 116:22 happen 27:20;78:5;82:20; 89:15;113:18;129:20; 132:13 happened 78:9 happening 29:9;51:22 happens 16:6;89:13;113:23 happy 61:16,17;120:14 hard 18:21;25:21;35:22; 69:23;115:13 harm 44:11;46:3;57:11; 58:16 harmed 10:4;57:21 harmful 44:18;112:23 Harris 48:11,12,12;55:10, 14;60:8 head 40:18;53:4;62:3 heading 86:15 Health 98:7;99:1;101:5,15; 111:11 hear 17:12;60:12;106:7 heard (14) 11:8,11;45:2;51:8; 53:20;80:8,8;92:19,21; 103:8;106:5;119:22; 124:19;129:21 hearing 16:3;67:19;81:23; 111:3;123:17 hearings 66:9 hearing's 60:12 help 9:4;79:12;95:21 helpful 35:15 helps 92:7 herein 86:18 Here's 132:12 Herr 90:11;116:3,10,14, 21;131:2,9 H-e-r-r 116:19 hesitant 46:23 high 18:20;102:1 highlighted 101:22 highly 39:13;89:13,14;90:5 hill 28:18,19,20 hire 121:8 historical 21:4 history 11:4;67:7,9 hit 45:1,6;51:23;55:17; 60:10 hog 63:18,22 hole 8:15,16;10:1 holes 45:20,21;46:5;121:5; 122:18;123:11;126:9 home 23:6;37:4;62:23 Honestly 70:15 honesty 62:12 hook 56:4;103:22;104:8; 105:7 hope 35:15;115:20 hopefully 73:13;77:7 horizon 8:18;9:11;28:8 horizons 8:1;28:7;31:3 hours 108:10;123:20;131:1 house 26:15 huge 13:3 human 85:19 hundred 23:23;27:6;30:8,18; 31:7;51:5,5;93:1;124:7 hundreds 28:23;29:1;39:14; 58:18 hurts 57:23 hydraulic 25:19;76:15 hydrocarbons 110:8,9;111:9,15,20; 112:9,14 hydrology 8:9;29:16,17 hydrolyzed 21:20 hypocritical 63:14 I idea 74:22;75:2;79:8,14; 89:19,21 identified 93:20 identify 34:2;105:23;121:17; 122:23 IDNR 20:8;74:11;78:2,18; 79:5 III 116:14 illegal 76:16;82:13 Illinois (42) 5:6;7:16;11:13; 13:18;15:16;20:13,19, 21,22;26:11;29:22; 36:23;39:12;47:9; 54:22;62:16;73:6; 74:12;75:5;76:1,7,15; 87:13,19;88:12,17; 90:6;94:11;98:6;101:4, 12,14;102:23;103:6; 106:2;113:11;116:16; 118:3,10;122:9; 125:14;126:14 illustration 6:23 I-l-o-i-l 125:18 imaging 33:9,13 immediately 113:22 impact 45:16 implementing 88:12 importance 16:11 important 69:21;73:19;118:23 imposed 46:9;48:17;89:20 impression 79:1 imprisonment 96:21 improvements 41:3 inability 66:14 inaudible 130:17 incidence 102:2 incident 89:6 include 111:8 included 98:4;104:18 including 96:21 inconsistencies 124:23;125:4 Incorporated 99:9 incorrect 83:15 incorrectly 106:7 increase 19:18 increased 102:2 increasing 73:1 incredibly 33:23 indefinitely 57:8 indemnification Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] generally - indemnification ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 56:16 indemnify 56:7,8,17,21 independent 97:13;109:19;121:9 Indiana 26:9 indicate 11:17;24:15;25:17; 31:3;37:2;131:9 indicated 37:11;66:12;67:6,18; 69:14;126:8;131:2 indicates 6:16;84:4 indicating 63:4;96:8;98:11,22; 99:2,4 individual 34:19;70:20;79:11 industry 89:13 information (19) 4:22;5:15;6:15,18; 7:13,15;11:7;53:2; 68:4,9,19;69:15,18; 84:14;125:9,11,12,16; 127:22 inherited 38:19;54:5 inhibitors 19:17 initial 84:18;92:14 injecting 20:5 injection 20:5,9 injunctive 96:15 inquiry 79:18 inside 53:13 inspect 90:10,15 inspected 53:23;89:15 inspection 15:15 inspectors 78:20 instances 89:8 instructive 68:21 intend 80:11;128:2 intended 120:2 intent 87:3 interest 41:23;62:5;71:7 interested 16:19;54:14;70:16; 73:23;94:6;105:20; 106:18,19;107:6 interests 46:8 Internet 124:1 interrupt 91:21 into (33) 8:13;9:11;12:23; 14:16;16:5;20:2;29:13; 38:18;51:18;52:2; 56:14,21;57:3;67:16; 73:5;80:22;81:17; 82:17;83:4;90:8;91:8; 94:17,19;97:8,15; 98:19;104:6;108:10; 112:7;113:15;117:4, 16;124:9 intrigued 71:17 introduction 44:1 intuitive 107:15 invades 8:19 invasion 9:4 involved 48:13;54:9;55:11; 64:10;66:9 ironic 44:8 isotopes 24:9 issuance 107:19 issue (17) 21:7;54:2;75:19; 76:1,14;78:17;79:5; 82:3;83:6;86:9;95:1; 103:7,7;104:13; 120:23;127:20;129:5 issued 87:18 issues 11:1;77:9;103:12; 118:3;121:2 Items 86:15,16 J Jacksonville 73:9 James 81:5 Jefferson 66:5,6 Jim 80:21;91:20 job 9:2;78:18;79:6,16,18 jobs 66:20 judge 77:21,23;128:9 jump 19:21 jury 77:23 K Kansas 38:16 keep 65:4 key 123:3 KEYLIN (10) 29:21,21;30:2;54:16, 21,22;55:2;113:10,10, 13 K-e-y-l-i-n 29:22;54:22;113:11 Kiley 37:19,20,22,22;38:1, 4,13,13 killed 38:14 kind (20) 5:18;12:3;30:22; 33:13;38:6;40:8;44:16; 56:14;57:4,10,18; 66:18;67:20;71:4,16, 16;78:14;89:20; 122:20;128:8 KNAPP 44:3;77:13;91:20; 97:16,22;101:18; 105:11;116:7;131:17 knew 67:8 knowing 96:20 knowingly 44:11 knowledge (15) 41:17,19;42:3;46:2; 49:7,21;52:7;54:4,10; 57:20;73:2,11;82:5; 115:2;123:10 known 48:9;115:16 Kuritz 4:6,7;10:10;13:21; 52:22 L LA 48:11 lab 83:11;97:13;109:19, 22,23;112:2 labs 112:7 lack 70:2 LaHoil 48:9,9;55:9,9,20; 60:1,6,11 L-a-H-o-i-l 48:10 LaHoya 59:16,23,23 Lake 52:18 land 30:12,13;49:13,15; 61:15,22;114:13 landfill 44:3,4 landowner (13) 56:5,12,22,23;60:2, 3;86:4,5;114:4,7,8,9,17 landowners 63:23;121:19 lands 86:18 language 56:8;107:3 large 122:20 largest 39:9 last (14) 4:20;11:12;21:18; 37:11;59:18,19;66:11; 72:19;84:17;85:16; 86:12;96:17;114:5; 116:17 late 37:18 later 12:9;67:12;80:13 Laura 37:22 law 75:14;76:3;77:1,2,4, 6 laws 70:4 lawsuit 43:23;44:5;47:15; 56:21 lawyer 47:16;55:22;102:20 lawyers 80:1 lay 103:14 layer 53:12 layering 30:21 layers 19:1;30:19 leak 32:16;34:13;55:18; 56:2;57:4 leakage 7:15;26:17;50:16 leaking 34:6;75:19 leaks 14:4;33:11,12 learned 67:12;71:7 lease (17) 56:1,6,7;86:3,5,8,13; 106:6,9,11,22;107:4, 23;115:3,4,5,6 leased 36:4;93:18 leases 56:15;57:1 least 36:3;98:21 leave 38:8,10 leeching 58:1;114:1 left 38:3,11,12;44:17; 132:4 legal 56:14;57:10 legislative 75:7,10 legitimate 125:9 lens 32:5 lenses 31:23 LeRoy 37:4,17;40:20;63:7 less 30:7;39:20;43:2 lessee 86:17,20 letter (16) 81:19;82:11,12; 83:23;84:7,8,9,16;95:2, 9;99:21;104:11,19,23; 117:11;122:13 letterhead 84:2 level (11) 25:12;61:5;71:9; 72:22;73:1;100:14,17, 18;101:1,6;102:6 levels 18:20;61:3;72:16; 91:23;92:6;98:7; 101:17,23;102:1 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] indemnify - levels ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 Lewis 97:5,21;104:7;105:4 liability 56:20 liable 55:20,21;56:12;57:7, 13 library 15:7 liked 38:6 likely 19:20;132:14 limestone 8:18 limit 55:4 limited 68:7 limits 122:15 line (10) 15:5,8,14;32:21; 36:4,6,9;96:17;125:5; 128:20 lined 129:10 lines 96:10 liquid 112:14 liquids 128:1 list 21:18;34:23;35:2; 110:14,18,21,22; 127:23 listed 22:6 liter 102:7 literally 43:22;58:17 little (26) 4:19;5:14,19;8:13; 10:19;12:4;17:4;26:16; 35:22;46:23;49:16; 65:13;71:8;74:20; 76:13,14;80:9;93:10; 105:15;107:10,11,12; 117:15;122:17,22; 126:18 live 63:3;64:5 liver 102:3 Lloyd 48:12,12;55:10,14; 60:8 local 21:21;28:19;30:3,8; 31:16;33:3 locally 46:17 located 30:4,9;36:7;42:10; 120:7 location 6:14;11:6;40:12; 120:6;125:11 locations 11:14 log 31:2 logical 73:10 logs 15:3;31:1;45:2,3,3; 59:18 loner 38:6 Long 38:7;54:9;104:2; 105:14;115:3,6;127:11 look (17) 7:6;39:7;49:19;71:2; 74:6;77:12;86:3;88:5, 7;92:23;112:2,7;116:5; 118:9,11;123:13;132:2 looked 120:6 looking 19:2;58:10;92:20; 93:12;101:12;112:10 lost 41:17 lot 5:11,13;36:9;39:12; 50:11,12;61:2,14; 80:11 Lots 46:15 low 34:13 lozenge 32:6 M ma'am 92:13 MACFARLANE (19) 81:1,5,8,15;83:23; 84:16;85:13;87:8;89:3, 5;90:16;92:8;94:7,15; 105:22;106:3,21; 113:9,12 M-a-c-F-a-r-l-a-n-e 81:6 machinery 33:13 Mackinaw 26:17 Madam 98:16;102:18;103:6; 115:12 Mahomet (44) 11:9;16:5,16;25:10; 26:5,10,16,22;30:5; 31:6,21,22;40:2,4;43:1, 18;44:12,14,19;45:16; 46:1,3;57:14,18,21,23; 58:5,12,17;59:2;92:22; 93:7,17;117:6;118:21; 119:14,23;120:5,8,12; 122:16;124:15;125:8; 127:3 mail 68:16;84:8 main 19:1;124:18 mainly 95:13;112:10 maintain 72:11 maintained 126:4 maintaining 22:9 maintenance 43:15 major 44:6;122:23 makes 39:21;68:14 making 61:11;62:2;70:16; 73:14 man 55:10 Manlove 122:22;123:12 man's 55:14 manslaughter 75:21;76:5,9 many (15) 14:15;17:18,18;39:4, 14,14;40:23;42:9,9; 49:17;79:22;92:23; 126:20,20;127:13 map (22) 6:11;10:13;18:4,7; 62:20;92:11;117:5; 119:17;120:6,22; 121:14;122:1,8,13,15, 16,21;123:14;124:7, 14;125:1,1 mapping 122:4,10;124:17,18; 125:7 Margaret 29:21;54:21;113:10 Marion 5:5 Marseilles 82:16,21;83:8,8; 95:6,11 Marshall 117:10,13,19 material 13:13;14:2;23:2; 26:1;27:1,8,22;29:10; 82:1 materials 8:2,17,20;24:4,17; 98:4;100:9 math 49:16 matter 13:16;58:20;66:8; 69:4;85:3,5;125:21 matters 71:10;84:23 maximum 101:1,6,17,23;102:4, 5 may (15) 4:22;15:13;26:21; 37:8;60:16;63:11,11, 12;82:15;89:11,17; 95:5;96:14;122:5,5 Maybe (17) 26:8,8,9;33:4;34:16; 35:21;38:14;66:13,21; 80:1,2;91:20;93:14; 96:17;113:23;115:23; 128:7 MCL 102:6 McLean (10) 4:1;7:11;11:15; 12:18;14:10;41:1; 45:22;67:19;91:23; 119:6 mean (28) 6:21;11:4;12:1; 14:12;23:11,13;24:19; 29:4;43:9;49:10;53:16; 55:23;56:14;57:2; 58:14;59:18;60:6; 74:13;78:6;89:12;91:2; 93:8,9;107:5;111:2; 112:4;124:16;126:4 meantime 75:12 mechanics 21:14 meet 128:15;130:18,21; 132:13,15 meeting 129:18;130:8,19; 132:6 member 14:19,20;23:1 members (10) 4:16,23;35:14;47:20; 70:10;73:22;89:2;94:5; 115:21;117:2 memorandum 107:2 mentioned 33:16;90:4 merge 122:11 met 129:13 methane 50:6;110:11;111:9, 18,20,22,23;112:5,10 method 118:19 methods 127:13 mic 126:18 mics 54:19 middle 86:14;88:7 midst 67:19 might (14) 12:8;17:13;20:8; 34:17;40:1;44:8;58:7; 62:5;65:17;66:22; 89:20;120:10;125:4; 129:20 Mike 70:7 Mike's 68:11 mile 10:18,18;29:10;49:4 miles 10:14,15;16:14;37:5; 92:22;93:7,10;124:14 million 39:8,15 mimics 101:16;103:7 Minard (15) 63:10;80:6;82:12; 86:3;87:3,21;94:18; 96:3;99:16;102:17; 104:11;106:23;117:23; 120:22;121:8 mind 56:2 mine 22:4;64:15;65:1; 117:9 mineral 46:7 Mine's 95:21 minimal 16:13 minor 80:7;89:17 minutes 65:15;108:10; 128:17,19 mistake Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] Lewis - mistake ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 119:1 mistakes 89:15,16,18 misunderstanding 95:14,15 mix 19:16;114:14 modern 24:11,13 moment 114:21,22 Monday 129:18;130:8,12; 131:12,14;132:14 money 33:15;38:9;55:16; 61:11,15,17 monitor 9:7;66:15 months 50:1;109:12 more (21) 5:1,4,14;8:17;35:7; 38:9;39:12,22;47:19; 56:12;61:15;69:1; 70:15;88:23;105:1,3, 10;120:21;121:5; 127:17;128:19 morning 67:1;69:11 most 18:11;56:23;111:17 mostly 122:18 mother's 45:21 move (12) 9:12,15,17;27:2,3,4, 5;32:1;108:8,11;113:5; 126:17 moves 8:11;26:10;31:20 moving 24:22;26:6;28:17; 31:19;32:2,13,15 Mt 116:15;117:8 much (18) 7:3;33:15;35:3,4,7; 36:13;38:7;45:21; 51:12;68:19;93:9,15; 103:18;112:7;118:5, 12;124:1;127:12 mud (17) 8:15,19;9:3,4,6; 11:23;12:3;19:12;21:7, 8,10,12,23;22:9;50:21, 23;51:1 multiple 90:8 municipalities 103:2 must 36:3 myself 24:7;40:3;52:9; 65:15;70:9;73:18 N naive 56:9 name (22) 5:3;16:22;17:6; 36:19,20;37:23;54:16; 55:14;56:10;59:15; 66:1,3;81:3,5;94:9,12; 109:22;116:12,14,18; 119:21;122:6 named 55:10;56:17;60:8; 117:9 naming 56:4 narrative 14:8 natural 13:22;33:11,11; 87:14,19 naturally 10:5 nature 37:14;39:3;41:4; 74:18;106:22;108:2; 124:3 nawning 110:1 near 41:18;43:19;55:4; 60:13;63:17;128:20 nearby 57:6 nearest 36:8 necessary 17:21 need 17:4;23:15;38:9; 54:16;92:6;105:15; 116:8,9 needed 110:6 needs 24:1 negative 45:16 negligence 75:22 negligent 96:20 neighborhood 10:14;24:16 neighbors 23:18 neighbors' 27:5;28:5 Nelson (26) 5:2,2,5,5,9;6:5,6; 9:16,20;10:9;11:11,16, 21;13:20;14:13,18,21; 15:1,21;16:1,20;17:9, 11;22:21;30:1;35:6 new 17:3;18:16;50:11,12 news 123:16 next 108:8;130:8 nice 75:12 night (15) 4:20;11:12;21:18; 23:3;66:11;72:19; 85:16,16,17;129:11,11, 13;130:20,23;132:14 nights 69:1;115:15 nineties 18:12,14 nitrates 57:22;58:1;59:7 None 6:23;57:20;58:5 North 22:20;35:17;36:22; 37:4;41:11;42:14; 62:15;106:1 northeast 40:19 northwest 18:3 noticed 71:16 notified 48:20,21 notify 114:10 November 130:13,15,16; 131:23;132:15 number (12) 40:9;42:11;67:5; 83:14;84:19;88:1; 100:23;102:4,4,12; 109:5;122:6 numbered 96:5 numbers 35:22;72:23 numerous 91:23 O oath 81:12 objectors 6:9;16:20;54:14; 94:7;105:21;115:23 obligates 88:16 obligation 87:5;103:3 observation 25:16 obtained 68:18 Obviously 39:11,17;40:22; 44:16;50:11;118:22; 123:12 occasion 86:2 occupant 84:12 occur 44:7;55:18,19 occurred 74:19;121:3 occurring 13:22 o'clock 131:15;132:13 October 117:12;132:18 off (21) 7:3;12:4,15;28:19; 39:18,19,21;40:17; 42:22;43:6;44:11; 49:22;53:4,15;61:11; 65:13;86:12;103:22; 104:8;105:7;126:6 offer 86:11 offhand 110:3 office 66:4;77:14;78:7,13; 116:15 official 11:17 officially 84:15 oil (98) 6:12;7:1,11,20,21, 21;8:8,22;9:23;10:5; 12:1,10;13:2;14:10; 15:3,12;17:16,19; 20:14;21:1;27:1;28:14; 29:3;33:6,10,11,21; 34:1,2,4,9,12,13;38:4; 39:3;41:2;42:4;43:6; 44:23;45:1,6,18;46:8, 19;47:4,6;48:9;55:9, 21;58:19;60:1,7,11,18, 22,23;61:3,4,6,11,22; 63:1,4,10;64:13;74:12; 75:5,23;84:21;86:4,17; 87:3,5,21;88:12,18; 96:3;99:16;106:23; 111:21;117:6,23; 119:5;120:3;121:4,13, 20;122:10,14;123:5,9, 12,18,22;125:15;126:3, 14,22 old 18:17;19:8;24:16; 54:6,8 old-fashions 115:14 once (11) 51:2;86:22,23;91:8; 108:18;113:20,20,21; 114:6,12,12 one (45) 5:4;9:5;10:17;14:11; 15:9,23;21:19;24:3; 25:9;26:14,20;31:2; 33:16;35:7;39:9;42:18, 19;51:16;54:19;62:22; 66:12;71:15;72:20; 76:18;77:22;83:16; 89:6,10;95:10;97:9; 98:8,11,14;101:7,8; 103:19;121:11;123:20; 124:11;125:12;127:17; 129:15,19;131:23,23 ones 18:11;26:14;42:22 ongoing 21:1;59:9 only (15) 6:9;12:13;27:10; 33:1,7,8;41:19;51:2; 54:18;69:21;77:22; 82:23;104:7;112:1,5 on-site 15:16,17;20:6 onto 108:8 open 85:10 operate 82:15;87:15 operates 37:15;48:8 operating 49:18 operation 13:9;48:18;71:23; 88:14;127:9 operations 21:2;29:7,9;41:18; 87:1 operator 67:4;119:6 opinion 16:12;49:9,14;57:16; 70:2;77:16 opinions 129:14 opportunity 82:1 oppose 64:4,6,11,11,16 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (10) mistakes - oppose ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 opposed 21:10 opposition 64:2 order 4:2;27:19;63:10; 84:10;94:18;96:2,12; 98:5;103:9 orders 91:15 ordinance 92:1 ordinary 127:11 original 48:10,12;49:17;60:9 originally 39:6;55:8;60:7 O'Rourke (17) 10:16,20;17:17; 23:18;28:3,18;31:14; 35:17,20;36:2;37:6; 41:11,13;60:14;87:22; 92:12;106:13 others 29:20;35:5;62:14; 89:9;95:3;115:10 otherwise 91:15;129:5 ought 43:22 ours 100:8;118:18 out (43) 7:20;9:23;10:2,3,23; 11:2;13:5;24:5;26:3, 14;31:10;34:20;35:22; 40:8,13;47:7;51:19; 55:23;59:3;63:7;66:16; 67:22;68:11;69:7,10; 70:3,15;72:5;90:10,14; 95:2,8;109:21;111:5; 112:17;113:1,1; 115:13;119:14;124:5; 128:12,14;129:9 outcome 62:6 outline 117:5 outside 120:12 over (20) 14:9;19:19;22:5; 26:11;27:5;28:23;29:1; 39:8;43:20,22;54:1; 59:17;81:20;101:21; 115:6;116:8;120:7; 123:5,18;127:3 overseen 90:11 owe 70:5 own (12) 34:19;37:5,7;38:22; 41:9,12;42:15,16,17; 60:13;82:5;121:15 owned 37:12;38:20;48:15; 52:8;54:1;60:14;61:9, 22;62:9 owner 47:5;48:3,4;87:2; 107:1;114:5,16 owners 37:20;106:23;121:19 owner's 113:17 ownership 37:14;41:23;48:14 oxygen 24:9,14 P PA 99:16 PA98-022 77:3 packet 98:4 page (13) 14:7;71:21;86:12,12; 95:19,19,23;96:1,6; 98:6;101:4;119:16; 122:2 paper 126:4 paperwork 95:1 paragraph 86:15;88:7,16;95:20; 96:6,11 paragraphs 108:16 parameters 83:13;113:16 Pardon 130:2 parents 38:3 part (26) 13:10;14:8;15:11; 25:19;44:20;47:8,9,11; 48:5,6;65:18;73:18; 74:11;75:5;76:3,14,21; 89:12;94:1;101:22; 104:23;107:4,13,14; 108:4;118:13 partially 21:20 participating 72:10 particular 16:6;39:10;64:12; 69:21;82:3;85:2;86:1; 88:6;127:4 Particularly 110:11 parties 16:19;54:14;73:23; 94:6;105:21 parts 29:5;65:15 party 97:10,12;106:18,19; 109:19 pass 28:14;100:14;101:4; 102:11;115:13 passing 27:12;32:23 past 29:3;41:20,21 pattern 39:18 pay 46:17;56:22;68:21; 84:21 PCB 44:1 peak 115:22,23 pellet 12:20,22 penalties 74:15,17;77:4;84:22 penalty 96:15 penetrating 33:16 penetration 33:20 89:14;90:5;95:7; 97:19;99:9 people (10) 29:4;33:4,6;56:6; 61:14;64:9;66:20; 69:23;73:15;126:22 per 78:3;90:1,2;96:16, 22;102:7 perceive 44:15,18 perceived 44:19 percent 14:18;78:21 percentage 14:17 perceptible 9:12,15,17 percolates 23:10 performed 108:20 performing 109:18 perhaps 16:10;47:16;75:10; 87:9 period 89:19;104:2;128:5 periodically 110:5 Perjury 76:20 permanently 32:7 permeable 8:17 permit (23) 20:8;60:17;62:6,7, 11;76:20;82:22;87:14, 18;88:6,9,10,21;90:18, 21;91:4,17;92:2,5; 107:20;118:4,5,17 permits 59:17,19;68:6;127:5 perpetual 115:4 person 15:17;57:8 personal 7:15;49:14;66:23; 73:2;82:5 personally 63:12 peters 40:8 petitioner 66:8 petroleum 6:2;7:17;39:9;75:15; 110:7;111:8 phase 90:9 Phil 68:11 phone 67:2;79:9;122:6; 132:4 phonetic 46:15;59:16;110:1 physician 37:17;107:8 physics 9:19 pick 12:19;17:12;27:11; 35:1;111:17 picked 93:21 picks 26:6 picoCuries 100:15,16,18;101:1, 6,23;102:7 picture 33:14 piece 40:5;43:21;52:20 pit 44:2 place 66:10;67:9;109:13; 121:14 placed 87:15 places 26:13,14 plan 130:10 planning 118:11,15 plant 83:2 please (16) 4:2;16:22;22:15,18; 36:17;37:13;39:2; 42:11;81:4;82:9;84:7; 86:13;88:9;101:3; 117:1,18 Plenty 91:22 Pliura (22) 36:14,21,21;37:4,9, 11;38:13,22;47:13,17; 48:1;51:10;52:21;53:5; 55:1,3;59:13,15;62:17; 65:11;67:11;71:6 P-l-i-u-r-a 36:21 plug 12:6 plugged 6:16;11:18;18:9; 120:23;126:12,16 plugging 11:19;90:12,14; 126:23 plugs 18:16;19:8,10;121:1 plus 51:5 pm 132:18 pockets 51:23 point (14) 35:21;42:18;51:16; 55:19;56:13;72:20; 73:13;94:8;103:17; 108:9;119:20;120:14; 124:5,12 points 123:3 pole 71:18,22;72:1,4,7 pollutants 104:6;105:3 pollution 121:18,20;123:21 polyacrylamide 21:20;22:2 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (11) opposed - polyacrylamide ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 polymer 21:10,12 polymers 21:14,15 pool 23:7;24:21 poor 75:19 populated 40:14 porous 8:18 portion 47:1 position 32:21 possibilities 33:1 possibility 19:6 possible 21:22;22:11,12,13; 31:15;33:6;75:22; 98:17 possibly 30:11,21;32:22;58:7; 61:22;93:10 post 116:15 Potential 63:4 potentially 10:2;95:10;112:23; 132:1 pour 12:23 powder 12:20,22 power 72:3 PowerPoint 6:4;115:13;125:2 practitioner 38:2 predicated 74:7 predict 25:4,7 predominant 111:21 preparation 117:17 prepare 121:9 prepared 107:19;115:15; 117:3;129:4 preparing 117:22 presence 33:6 present 43:4;66:9 presentation 86:2 presented 62:21;65:16,18; 77:21;81:17;116:2; 123:20;124:4 president 84:9;91:14 pressure 22:10;25:12,13; 75:17 presume 74:16 pretend 128:9 pretty 7:3;18:19,21;19:3,8; 22:8;96:23;127:12 previous 6:12;68:23;100:1 previously 67:15 Prices 51:6 primarily 29:8 primary 41:3 prior 108:18,21,21;110:19 prisons 73:7 pro 57:17 probably (40) 8:6;10:14;14:18; 15:23;17:14;19:13; 22:8;24:15;26:1,15; 28:23;33:18;40:6,21; 43:22;45:19;49:4;50:1, 18;55:13;60:20;63:12; 64:11;65:13;71:3;75:7; 76:10;78:19;113:5; 115:16,18;121:4; 122:3;125:3,23;128:4, 6,13;129:12,16 problem 7:4;51:2;52:8;54:21; 75:18;124:3 problematic 21:13 problems 5:17;24:3;43:10,15; 52:3,5,11;56:19; 121:18 procedure 8:14;77:5;118:1 procedures 127:7,9 proceed 36:12;37:8 proceedings 105:18 process 12:8;39:3;53:9;59:9; 68:13;72:11;120:20; 126:2;128:1 processing 34:1 produce 8:22;39:16,23;51:13, 15 produced 7:1;28:7;53:12; 82:16,23 producing 7:11;39:13;115:5 product 12:7;41:4 production 41:17;51:1;90:8 productive 15:10;39:12,20,22; 43:2 products 21:19;111:9 professional 107:7 progressed 120:21 project 64:12;67:8,8;68:1; 71:7 projects 110:6 propane 112:10 properly 72:7;121:5 properties 35:13;62:22;85:20 property (45) 17:17;23:19;35:9,9, 17,18,20,21;36:1,1,2,5, 7,8;37:2,5,6;40:5;41:7, 10,12,13;42:17;43:21; 46:15,18,22;47:1;49:8, 10;60:15;61:12;62:21, 22;63:3,7,8,17;64:18, 20,23;92:12,20,23; 107:1 proposed 6:13;16:15;121:12 proposing 53:7 proprietary 15:11;106:22;108:2 prosecute 76:8;77:5;78:12 prosecuted 77:17 prospect 33:22 protect 9:4;118:6;119:2; 120:18 Protection 13:18;81:21;84:3; 85:2;102:5 protective 12:6;46:1 protocol 65:13;110:2 provide 67:21;87:1;96:19; 110:14;120:4 provided 69:17;71:22 provides 75:4 providing 57:7 provision 86:8 proximity 22:9;37:2 public 35:16;64:1;68:9,15; 73:18;102:6,16;103:3; 106:17 publicly 65:2;125:16 published 122:5 pull 6:3 pump 25:8,8,15 pumped 20:11;39:8;47:7 pumping 6:21;9:23 purchased 49:11 purpose 38:15 purposes 68:7,8 pursuant 127:5 put (15) 33:22;34:5;38:12; 43:8;53:8;63:18;79:10; 83:14;114:2;115:22; 116:7,22;118:16; 119:21;129:10 putting 104:2 Q qualified 86:22 qualifying 20:22 quality 43:13;97:20 quarter 93:10 quickly 66:22 quiet 65:4 quite 12:2;21:21;54:9; 61:16;110:17;122:3 quorum 4:17 quote 37:12 R radar 33:17 radially 26:3 radioactive 100:6,9;105:3 radioactivity 103:13 radium (11) 98:7;100:5,8,14,15, 18;101:1,6,23;102:2,6 raft 68:18 railroad 38:18 rain 28:21;114:1 raise 36:16;64:3 raised 85:20 raising 21:17 Ralph 37:23;38:5,6,13 Ramona 48:6 ran 70:15 random 58:23 randomly 59:1 range 23:20 rate 59:4 rather 59:4;112:23 Rau (19) 16:23;17:1,1,5,7,7, 10;59:12,12,14;74:2,2, 4;78:15,16;79:4;98:3, 15;124:16 R-a-u 17:7 reach 20:14 reaching Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (12) polymer - reaching ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 29:11 read 86:13;88:9;95:20; 96:10;99:14;101:21; 102:12 reading 102:15 re-admit 87:10 ready 6:6;36:12 real 19:22;104:5 reality 103:11 realize 86:7;128:11 really 7:2,8;12:13;31:1; 51:21;90:8 reason 21:17;48:14;54:19; 103:21;104:7;107:5 reasonable 123:23 reasons 15:10;128:16 rebuttal 102:20 recall 80:21;97:11;124:6 receive 46:9 received 47:5;84:5,18 recent 18:11 recess 105:17 recessed 132:19 recognize 81:12 recollections 85:21 recommended 13:17;120:22;121:8 record (25) 14:9;20:23;21:4,5; 36:20;47:12;54:18; 65:19;66:7;67:9;81:3, 7,17;94:1,17;97:8,15, 23;98:20;103:14; 104:11;105:1;108:13; 116:12;124:4 recorded 106:8;107:2 records 68:1,2,11,13,14; 72:11;126:3 recourse 113:17;114:4,7,15 rectify 114:17 reduced 115:18 reduction 72:22 refer 102:23 reference 84:18;99:11 referenced 84:13;107:3 referral 78:2 referred 77:9;87:12;118:7; 125:1 referring 37:21;47:13;94:20; 95:23;96:1;97:17,18, 23;116:6 reflected 124:23 reflective 71:1 reflects 66:7 regarding 15:21;16:21;35:8; 85:2,21;87:5,5;89:5; 98:7 regardless 107:23 region 117:7 regular 130:19;132:1,6 regulated 89:14;90:5;91:22 regulation 78:4;91:23;92:7 regulations 50:11,12,18;53:17, 19;70:3;78:3;88:13 regulatory 74:6;76:16 re-inject 51:17;52:1 relate 81:19 related 6:10;102:22;123:18 relates 68:19;106:22 relation 35:10;121:12 Relative 46:7;49:2 relatively 40:16 release 7:18 relief 96:15 remains 85:6 remarkable 59:4 remember 71:15;76:17;86:7; 92:11 remote 40:16 remotely 40:14 remove 71:18;72:3 removed 24:12;26:1;72:1 replenished 24:1 reply 120:7 report 70:14,16;100:3; 102:11 reporter 17:3 reports 6:19;11:17;97:1,9; 98:9 republican 61:19 request 7:16;68:3,4;69:16; 84:14;96:13;117:10; 127:23 require 7:16 required 97:7 requirement 101:13;120:17 requirements 88:11,17 research 58:13 residences 48:23 residents 48:22 resolved 84:23 resource 117:14 Resources 87:14,20;117:20 responded 82:18 responding 79:18 responsibilities 66:16,21;67:22;69:6, 9;70:4 responsibility 43:13;76:7;78:13 responsible 73:15;78:18;79:15, 18 responsive 72:12;73:15 result 45:17;96:14;97:4; 100:11 results 24:14;25:9;87:1; 109:21;122:14 resumed 105:18 return 128:22 review 57:1;82:1;84:11; 104:3;106:6 rich 33:19 rig 63:2;109:9 right (48) 5:22;8:6;10:1;12:17; 14:11;19:4;21:3,13; 23:8,22;27:21;28:9; 29:15,15;30:20;35:11, 12;36:16;40:8;41:10; 49:18;59:4;61:7;63:19; 64:1,16;65:6;77:2,2,4; 80:22;87:16;90:19; 99:22;101:12,16; 102:9,19;110:19,23; 111:2,23;114:10; 123:14;128:13,22; 132:11,11 rights 42:4 rings 59:16 risk 16:4,13 River 26:12,17 Road 22:20;36:22;43:3; 55:4;62:16;106:2 Roadcap 119:21 Roadcap's 122:6 roads 40:15;43:12,15;55:4 Robert 5:5;116:10,14 role 4:3 Ron 22:16 roof 46:15 room 132:18 rotary 127:14 rough 17:21 roughly 40:17;92:19,21,21 routinely 118:13 royalties 46:8,20;47:4 RUDOLPH (77) 4:1,8,9,16;5:7;6:5; 9:14;11:11;14:7,14,19; 15:20;16:19;17:3; 22:14,18;29:12,19; 35:5;36:10,16,19;37:1, 8;47:20;48:2;51:9; 54:13,18;59:11;62:14; 65:10,20;66:1;70:10; 72:14;73:21;78:14; 79:2;80:4,17,20;81:7; 85:12;89:1,4;92:9,16, 18;93:4,6;94:4,12,14; 103:16;105:13,20; 113:3,8;115:10; 127:19;128:11,21; 129:2,8;130:2,5,8,15, 18;131:4,8,11,14,21; 132:6,12 rule 78:4 rules 4:21;70:3;74:9;77:3, 7,12;78:3 run (20) 13:8;20:2;63:10; 80:7;82:12;86:4;87:3, 21;94:18;96:3;97:5,21; 99:16;104:11;105:4; 106:23;117:23;120:22; 121:8;128:2 running 85:15 runs 18:13 rural 40:22,22 Russia 64:3 S safe 100:17 salient 124:12 Sally 132:3 salt 20:9;51:12,13,15,18, 23 salty 19:3,5,8 same (16) Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (13) read - same ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 12:3;14:2,11;45:11; 53:8,13;57:4;92:3; 95:4;98:4;118:18,18, 19;124:13;127:10,12 sample 83:11;98:8;99:10; 110:2 samples 59:6,6;109:20,20 sanctions 74:8,11;96:19 sand 30:19;31:3 sands 28:10,11 sandy 8:18 satisfaction 85:1 satisfied 104:4 saw 62:20;71:10 saying 52:5;58:15;78:23; 95:10;100:9;104:12 scale 13:9;122:1 scenario 27:14 scheduling 109:7 schematics 62:23 scout 11:16 screen 45:22 seal 9:7,9;12:4,5;39:21; 53:22 sealant 13:17 sealed 126:10 seals 8:20;13:1;33:2 searching 124:1 second 100:22;101:10 secondhand 44:16 secretary 4:3 section 51:18;84:14;120:3 secured 125:8 seem 12:1;61:21;62:4; 78:23 seemed 62:1 seems 11:6;19:20;34:18; 75:7;102:15;107:15 seismic 33:23 seismics 33:23 send 109:21 sense 40:13;72:2 sent 83:11;95:8;97:12; 104:19;129:9 sentence 14:9 sentiment 61:20 separated 95:22 September 96:4 series 25:17 serious 96:23;97:2;103:12 serve 117:14 service 67:21 serviced 40:14 Services 99:8 sessions 79:10 set 12:15;77:12;118:5, 13;119:7;120:17; 130:10;132:16 settled 85:5,6 seven 37:5 several 5:23;6:14;26:8,13; 39:17,18;71:10; 108:16;124:7 shale 83:8;95:6 shall 77:9 shallow 31:16 shallower 30:9 shape 57:22;73:7 shaped 32:5,6 share 61:20 shares 41:6 shell 20:15 shipping 20:4 shoot 64:3 short 38:7;90:7;105:17; 128:5 shorter 10:19 short-sell 69:4 shot 38:14;64:4 show 35:11;69:4;83:23; 86:11;87:8 showed 11:13;100:8;101:9; 124:7,19 showing 92:14;115:17 shown 102:2;127:3 shows 6:11;17:16;72:9; 117:5;119:18;124:17 shrink 122:4 siblings 38:22 sic 96:6 side 42:23 sides 28:20;32:4 signature 81:20 significance 118:21 significant 16:14;47:7;72:21,21 similar 11:5,6;12:8;40:13; 107:20 single 58:15 sisters 42:16;48:4,5 site (18) 7:14;16:15;20:9; 23:18;27:7,8,12;28:3, 14;29:3;30:12,15;63:4; 71:15;77:18;87:22; 121:12;124:13 sites 39:4;42:9 sitting 28:18;30:15 situation 41:16;68:20;114:18 Six 4:16;124:14;131:15, 17;132:13 sixties 18:10,13;37:18,18 size 8:16 sizes 99:10 slide 17:16;92:16,20 slides 11:13;35:11 40:1 slow 17:4;32:15 slowly 26:10;31:19 slurry 12:21;114:2 small (12) 13:7;30:3,8,13,22; 31:16;38:1;40:7; 108:16;119:17,19; 122:1 smaller 123:15 smallest 74:20 smart 58:14 smell 50:8,9,19 snippet 106:10;107:11 so-called 100:10 sodium 18:21 soil 23:3,10,13;27:2,3 soils 33:20 sole 48:3,4 somebody 56:10;62:9;63:18; 76:11;77:5;78:1,6,8; 103:2 somebody's 57:12 somehow 7:20;76:4;100:3 someone 67:3;75:13;77:23 someone's 57:6 someplace 114:19 Sometimes 89:22 somewhat 40:14;43:12;103:8 Somewhere 25:1,2;93:2;121:6 son 37:23 soon 54:6 sorry 17:5;29:12;42:6,7, 14;75:9;105:22; 126:19;131:8 sort 18:2;103:10 sounds 96:23 source 118:23;125:9 sources 118:6 south 18:7;40:20,23;41:1; 42:14 southern 20:19,21,22;39:11; 41:1;45:22 soybeans 51:6 space 12:23 speak 41:19;67:3;69:2 speaking 91:14 special 13:5;60:17;62:6,7, 11;92:2,5;107:20 specialist 119:23 specific 72:15 specifically 103:12 specified 119:4;121:10 specify 118:4;119:5 specifying 78:4;121:22 speculate 57:11 speed 9:12,15,17 Spell 17:6;22:16;36:20; 94:12;111:5;116:17 spelling 113:1,1 spend 33:15 spill 50:16;55:18;57:5 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (14) sample - spill ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 spoken 67:11 spring 26:21 spudding 108:22 Staff 14:20;54:14;73:23; 78:19;94:6 staffing 72:16,22;79:7,13 stance 107:8 standard 56:15;110:2 standards 75:14;109:16 start 18:3;25:11,15;47:21; 76:22 started 95:2 starting 104:15;108:22 starts 88:8 state (42) 5:3;6:7;11:19;16:22; 36:19;46:14;47:9; 50:17;53:18;54:16; 61:2;66:1,16;73:6; 76:6;77:8,18;81:3; 87:13,19;90:18,21; 91:17;92:3;95:6;100:2; 108:17;109:17;116:12; 118:3,8,10,17;119:4, 12,13;122:9;125:13, 14;126:21,21;127:5 stated 77:4;105:9;112:18; 113:4 statement 62:2;69:20;70:17; 82:20 statements 131:21 States 64:6;65:7;81:20; 82:22;84:3;85:1;86:16 State's 76:8;77:14,20;78:7, 11;120:15 static 24:20;25:12 stating 95:2 statute 68:6;75:4;103:1 step 36:14 still (11) 5:11;7:6;19:3;24:18; 31:7;38:22;75:19; 81:13;92:5;93:8;112:4 stimulate 8:23 stockyards 38:16 stop 14:3;44:1,6;63:10; 79:21;115:4;128:13,22 storage 122:22;123:7,13,15 story 38:7 stratographic 123:6 Stream 104:7 Street 66:5,6;94:10 stringent 53:17 struck 52:13 structure 6:3,12;117:7 structures 123:6 studies 11:8;58:12,23 study 121:9 stuff 18:21;58:2;64:10; 129:6 SU 4:18;132:17 subject 41:7;68:22;80:6; 85:9,9;125:2 submit 68:3 submitted 82:2;92:11;96:3; 97:8,15;98:1,3,14,19 subsequently 38:3;84:12 suck 10:2 suggest 107:18 suggested 69:15 suggesting 95:13 Suite 66:6 super 9:6 superimposed 122:15 supersede 90:21 supervise 66:15 supervised 126:22 supervision 126:13 supplies 102:7 Supply 12:19;102:16;103:3 supports 8:16 supposed 70:1;71:13 sure (23) 5:20,21;33:5;36:6; 37:17;39:6;48:16; 55:23;64:19;72:6;81:7; 92:11;99:14;103:4; 106:20;113:4;116:9; 119:1,12;122:8; 126:19;128:5;132:16 surface (10) 8:7;20:15;26:7; 28:22;31:5,8;118:5,12; 119:7;120:18 surfaces 43:3 surprised 73:12;100:23;104:10 surrounding 23:12 Survey 11:20;15:6,16;98:8; 119:13,20;122:10 surveys 126:21 Survey's 125:15 suspect 125:3,22;127:8 swimming 23:7;24:20 swore 65:21 sworn 5:3;36:14,18;65:23; 81:8 symbols 122:17 system 76:11;122:10 systems 127:2 T table 115:23;116:8 tag 122:22 talk 5:11;7:19;8:9;11:23; 53:20;129:17,18 talked 43:18;71:5 talking 6:10;16:7;41:8; 55:22;58:8;76:22,23, 23;98:12 talks 101:5,22 tanks 43:8;51:17,20 task 67:11 tasked 73:17 tax (11) 46:9,12,14,14,14,15, 18,22,23;47:1,7 taxation 46:7 taxes 46:16,17 telling 107:12 ten 14:18;33:20;72:16; 128:17;131:17 tender 69:3;70:8;84:1 term 41:22;42:21;90:7 terminated 126:11 terms 13:9;96:12;107:23; 117:21 terrain 24:4 test (35) 25:20;34:19,21;59:2, 7,7,8;87:2;92:14,21; 93:19;97:9;100:7,11, 13;109:14;110:7,8,16; 111:12,17,23;112:21, 22;113:2,18,19;114:5, 6,11,11,11,12,12;117:7 tested 34:18;86:21;110:15; 111:10,11;112:20 testified 40:2;85:15;89:5; 118:2 testify 65:15;67:14 testimony (19) 15:22;16:21;29:13; 65:16;79:3;85:21; 92:19;94:21;100:1; 102:23;103:9;107:3; 108:3,4;116:2;123:17, 20;124:11;131:22 testing (19) 83:12;86:22;97:6; 100:5,6,20;109:15; 110:2,9,12;111:6,7,12, 14,14,19;112:5,15; 113:5 tests (12) 6:3,13,13;25:8,10,22, 23;58:23;59:1;97:4,20; 123:7 thanks 62:12 thereafter 54:7 there'd 123:18 therefore 84:13;105:3 thin 28:10,11 thinking 23:6;27:3;29:4; 40:17 third 97:10,12;109:19; 130:14 though 19:4;30:18;47:4; 79:13;118:17 thought (10) 66:13;72:3;73:19; 79:19;91:6;93:14; 118:22;119:10;121:3; 129:12 thousand 45:12 thousands 39:15;59:17 threat 44:16 three 26:8;42:18;48:5; 49:11,20 throughout 89:11 Thursday 130:6 tickets 11:16 tidbits 127:21 tight 25:21;33:2 till 85:12;132:16 timeline 108:19;109:1 times 79:22 today 23:7;38:23;65:17; 67:12 together 33:22;55:16;85:16; 104:3 told 45:13;67:4;72:20; Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (15) spoken - told ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 129:11 Tom 36:14,21;37:22; 62:19;65:8;67:11,12; 71:6 tomorrow 98:20;129:11 tonight 6:10;16:7;68:23; 115:17;128:7;129:5 took 38:2;65:17;66:10; 81:12;83:2;100:7 top 26:22;30:6;40:18; 53:4;65:5;99:14;114:2 total 14:12 touch 119:21 Towanda 5:6 toward 31:6 towards 18:7;25:18;26:6; 41:11 town 38:1;40:19,21;103:3; 128:12 township 40:15;43:14;120:4 toxic 13:13;21:21 toxin 22:7 track 21:4,5;58:7;67:9 tracking 58:6 tracts 41:9;49:11 transcript 54:20 transferred 79:9 transporting 43:6 trapped 32:7 traveling 27:23 treated 69:12 treating 95:11 treatment 82:14;83:2 tremendously 63:13 tributaries 120:10 tried 122:23 trouble 29:6;49:16 truck 13:5 true 16:12;18:19;19:18; 40:10,11;47:18;61:2; 84:19;107:1 try 55:23;56:7,10;76:11; 119:14;128:13 trying (11) 6:7;7:23,23;9:10; 10:1;15:6;58:14;67:6; 76:17;103:14;130:9 Tuesday 129:22,23;130:3,5 tune 54:7 turned 119:16 Turner (10) 4:10,11;9:18,21; 51:11;130:7,14;131:6; 132:3,8 Twenty 18:1 Twenty-four 42:13 two (12) 26:8;42:19;44:9; 51:5,5;79:9;88:8;93:1; 97:9;98:8;122:11; 124:18 two-and-a-half 92:10 two-page 122:13 type 100:21;111:8;123:9; 125:5 typical 109:16 typically 52:1;112:9;118:17 U Umhmm 29:1 unclear 112:4 under 74:11;76:3,6,14,21; 78:10;86:15;126:13 underground 20:12;24:22;29:10; 33:7;118:6 underlying 125:7 underneath 34:4 understaffed 66:14 understood 91:9 undertook 67:10 uneconomical 104:16,18;105:6 unending 115:7 unfortunately 131:3 United 64:5;65:7;81:20; 84:3;85:1 unknown 20:3 Unless 91:14;128:15 unlike 40:23 unlikely 9:14,16 unplugged 11:12,15 up (46) 6:3;8:16;9:1,10;10:2, 3,6;12:19;17:12;20:14; 26:6;27:11,13;29:3; 34:18;36:14;45:21; 55:21;57:9;61:8,10; 62:8;76:13;80:6;82:19; 83:7;85:10;89:7;91:21; 95:6;96:21;111:18; 115:17;116:22;117:21; 119:16,17;120:6; 121:1;125:5;126:10; 129:10;130:6;131:15, 18,20 upon 74:18;86:18;88:10; 102:22;104:3 upper 123:14 USDW 118:7 use (20) 9:7;12:3,5;14:1,2,3, 3;23:23;60:17;62:6,7, 11;71:22;86:19;92:2,5; 107:20;118:18;127:11; 130:11 used (12) 7:7;11:23;12:7;22:1, 7;33:22;53:9;117:20; 127:2,12;128:1;131:1 useful 119:19 USEPA 13:17 using 12:8;21:19 V valleys 26:20 value 49:13;64:23 values 49:8 value's 64:21 vandalism 50:2 Vanessa 48:7 varied 45:11 varies 125:20 various 95:9 vary 93:9 varying 45:10 venue 77:19 verbal 121:21 verified 124:17 Vernon 116:15;117:8 viability 121:1 vice 91:14 vicinity 17:17 view 44:9 vigorously 64:10 violates 75:13 violating 74:9;76:12 violation (10) 74:19,20;89:8;94:18; 96:2,12,13;98:5;99:21; 103:9 violations 96:20 Vista 17:1,8;59:12 visualize 7:23 voice 65:2,3 voidable 88:21 volcanic 13:23 W wait 85:12 Wapella (33) 7:14;10:11;15:3; 37:7,12,16,21;38:4,8, 20;40:12,19,22;41:15; 42:2,15,21,21,23;43:4, 6;44:23;45:17;58:4; 60:15;61:9;67:7;68:1, 20;70:18;71:7;125:22; 126:5 Washington 94:10 watch 25:9 water (101) 6:1;12:2,3,6,11,17; 13:8;14:4;19:3,7;20:9, 15;21:8;23:6,8,14,22, 23;24:1,2,8,9,10,15,16, 21,22;25:12;26:5,7; 27:3,10,11,21,23;28:3, 4,6,13,21,22;29:2;31:1, 20;32:1,15,23;34:18, 19;40:4;51:12,14,15, 18,23;52:4,9,12,16,19; 57:7,12;58:19;59:2,7; 64:18;82:14,21,23; 83:1,8;85:19;86:9,19, 21,22;87:5;95:11;97:4, 6,9,12,19;98:8;101:23; 102:7,16;103:3; 109:16;110:2;111:7, 12;114:1;118:6,9,23; 119:13,20;124:6,8; 127:14 waters 120:19 Way (24) 5:6,20;9:11;11:2; 13:12;20:14;22:4,4; 28:16;32:10,14,20; 34:6;44:18;46:4;57:22; 58:6;63:16,20;64:5; 65:4;85:10;92:3;116:3 weather 109:10 weathered 13:23 website 119:13,13;122:2; 125:17;126:1,7 Wednesday 129:23;130:3,5 week 130:9;132:9 weeks 92:10 weight 55:4 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (16) Tom - weight ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 welcoming 67:16 well-documented 103:23 wells (77) 5:23;6:1,12,16,21,21, 23;7:10;9:7;11:12,15; 12:1,2,3,6;13:5;14:10; 15:4,9;17:16,19;18:1,9, 19;20:14;23:17,20; 25:10,16;27:6;28:5,6, 6;29:6,11;33:10;39:6, 17,19,22;42:13,16,22; 44:23;45:8;49:17,17; 50:3,14,23;51:12;52:4; 53:1;55:12;57:5;58:4, 18,19;60:5,8;75:18; 83:1;86:9;87:6;90:10, 14,15;93:15;120:23; 121:4;122:20;123:7, 10,12;125:11;126:8,23 weren't 50:12 west (20) 13:5;26:6;31:19; 35:9,16;40:20;42:23; 62:15,15,18;66:5,6; 106:1,1,4;107:5;108:7, 12;113:3,7 West's 36:1 WETZEL (50) 15:23;16:2;17:6; 36:11,13;37:10;44:21; 47:3,19;65:12;66:3,4; 70:12;72:13;74:3,5; 80:3,18,19,21;81:2,9, 11;85:8,14;88:23; 95:21;96:5,8;101:11; 102:13,21;106:20; 107:18;115:11,12; 116:11,20;126:17,19; 127:1,16,20;128:18; 129:1,4;130:23; 131:10,12,19 W-e-t-z-e-l 66:4 Wexler 74:1 whatnot 53:21 what's (13) 5:17;9:3;51:22;62:2; 74:20;79:6;90:5; 111:11;112:16,20; 118:16;124:23;132:12 whatsoever 46:3 Whereupon 105:17 whole 45:9;58:1;120:20 whose 117:3 wide 111:15 widely 12:7 wife 37:22 wildcat 55:12;60:9 Wildlife 26:18 willful 75:22 William 17:1,7;59:12;66:3; 74:2 winter 83:19 withdrawing 24:11 within (13) 30:21;31:13;42:10; 49:5;50:3;73:15;77:6; 86:18;112:16;113:16; 121:5,14;123:7 without 32:18;91:7;92:2; 102:19 witness (12) 4:23;6:11;36:15,18; 44:4;54:15;65:23; 66:13;81:10;93:5; 116:19;126:20 witnesses 66:12 WOJTANOWSKI 22:16,16,19,22; 29:14 W-o-j-t-a-n-o-w-s-k-i 22:19 wonder 17:15 wonderful 63:2,6 wondering 29:15;30:3;33:4; 48:15;55:3;58:21; 113:14 word 15:7;23:11;71:4 words 8:18,22;25:11;27:18; 28:18;88:8 work (12) 8:12;33:19;41:4; 51:19;69:23;73:17; 112:2;114:17;122:14; 130:23;132:9,10 working 120:2 works 29:16,16,17;67:17; 77:13 world 71:20 worried 107:10 worry 13:14;65:3 worst 8:3,4,6 wrap 131:20 wrapping 131:18 writing 114:19,21 written 82:13;121:21;124:3 wrong 61:19;71:3,14;83:13; 91:22;103:10 Wyoming 13:11 Y yards 49:5 year 51:7;90:1,2;111:10 yearly 90:3 years (21) 10:21;11:4;24:16; 28:23;29:1;38:21; 40:10;41:20,21;43:10; 50:13;52:7;54:1,5,8; 59:18,20;72:16;89:12; 126:20;127:13 yell 65:5 yesterday 81:16;94:20 yields 51:3,3 Z zero 57:20;74:23;97:3 Zoning 4:1,21;68:12;91:9; 130:19 0 063906 88:1 1 1,000 86:19 100 30:17;31:4 103 5:5 10-6-2011 99:10 11 75:16 1100 18:8;19:4;45:6,7,12 1115 45:7 115 66:4,5 12 54:5;78:20;123:20 1200 40:6 130 23:21;28:8 1405 4:18;132:17 15 50:13;78:20;84:2; 108:10;120:3 155 100:15;102:8 16 117:12 160 24:17 17 54:8 170,000 24:16 18870 22:20 1971 38:17 2 2 20:5 20 17:23;108:10 200 41:12;49:5;60:13,14, 19 2011 96:4 2012 97:20 2013 84:2 2014 117:12 21 50:1 22 45:7 220 93:2 2200 62:15;106:1 226 100:14 228 100:15 230 93:2 24 39:6;42:13,22;45:9; 131:1 240 74:11;75:5;76:3,21 245 76:15 25,000 34:2 275 93:3,4,5;120:17 27th 131:14;132:14,18 2850 36:22 3 3 76:17 300 14:9;25:6 308 84:14 313 17:1,7;59:12 330 36:3,9 350 22:20;119:7;120:18 3rd 130:15,16;131:3,5, 10,11 4 4 76:18 40 10:21;26:3;38:21 400 35:19;36:1;66:6 42 41:20,21;43:10;52:7; 54:1 45 95:20;96:6,11,11 4th 130:19;131:23; 132:15 5 50 10:21,22;11:4;78:21 500 25:6;27:7;30:7 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (17) welcoming - 500 ---PAGE BREAK--- APPLICANT OF MINARD OIL RUN CO. BRADFORD, PA HEARING October 23, 2014 510 94:10 550 123:9 56 54:8 6 6 95:19,23;96:1; 132:18 600 123:5,18 6116 62:15;106:1 61737 36:23 62864 116:16 7 7:30 132:2,15 70 26:3 700 63:1,8 730 36:5 74 41:1 8 8:30 67:1 80 26:3 80-bushel 51:6 8155 36:22 8-20-2014 88:3 85 23:21;28:7 850 18:6 885 116:15 9 99 100:15 Min-U-Script® ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE PHONE: [PHONE REDACTED] FAX: [PHONE REDACTED] (18) 510 - 99